@Krish55

Thank you for sharing. I watched an interesting debate earlier.

@FrayedBear

Russian expansionist desires have been there for a while. The US never has been, nor ever will be the innocent moral angel it touts itself to be. To what degree the US is complicit in this can be debated forever, and we may never know the full extent.

Nothing unifies a nation more than a common enemy. But, Russia is punching above its wait class. And like the neighborhood bully, needs it’s nose bloodied a bit. Just wishthey would do it faster so less innocents get hurt.

Chomsky and others with a non-biased perspective have indeed been forecasting this (or its equivalent) and are correct in doing so. Leave the morals out of it; Putin did not wake up angry one day and decide to start a war. The US and the west have been trying to destroy Russia since the 1917 revolution, or make it weaker. (Example: WWII in Europe could have ended much earlier. Truman articulated the benefit of letting the Russians and Germans continue to slaughter each other for a few more months.)

Ask yourself: What would good old 'Merka do it the situation were reversed, and one of our territorial neighbors wanted to join a defense pact aligned against us?

I am not even a little bit defending Putin. But take the justified emotion out of it, and look at the geopolitics and defense considerations. Putin is rational.

So by that thinking…a country such as Ukraine cannot be allowed to join NATO because it will incur the wrath of Putin and just the mere discussion of the idea by NATO and the Western powers shouldn’t ever happen for fear of incurring Russia’s wrath? Putin has invaded Ukraine even though they haven’t been allowed to join …perhaps if they had been admitted and therefore would’ve had the full protection of NATO with actual defensive forces in place at their borders with Russia, then that would’ve been a real deterrent to Putin invading.

I think it’s perverse thinking to blame either Ukraine or any other country…former Soviet satellite or any other, for wanting to join a Defence organisation such as NATO to feel protected against the might of Russia. Put the blame for the current situation in Ukraine firmly where it belongs at Putin’s desire to rebuild the USSR at any and all cost. He blames NATO for expansionist moves, when free and democratic countries have the right to ask to join if they wish. We in the west have played into his hands by appeasing him by denying Ukraine entry into NATO and leaving them unprotected. It has been clear what Putin’s aims are from the very beginning of his reign as the new Czar of Russia, certainly since his invasion and annexing of Crimea in 2014 and earlier in 2008 in South Ossieta. The fact that we in the west have known his ultimate aims and yet allowed this situation to develop is shameful. The notion that Putin would have left Ukraine alone if the west had declared it a neutral country is fanciful and wishful thinking.. That he would’ve been satisfied to be told that it would never be admitted to either the E.U. or NATO, is naïve to say the very least, never mind the fact that Ukraine is a democratic country with a mind of it’s own and should be allowed to decide whether it wants to join, and not be told it cannot because Russia says NO!

When will we ever learn that appeasement to a megalomaniacal despot never has, and never will ever work. We in the West are seen as weak by Putin and it’s all our own doing…but sadly today it’s Ukraine and it’s people who are paying the price for our hesitancy and weakness.

But what did Ukrainians want? A rhetorical question, they wanted protection from Russia that Nato would have provided.

Thank you for this valuable contribution. I hope that you are sharing it with your pupils. I have been with my few remaining acquaintances.