No Middle ground. Let's get 'er done.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.This is the democratic losing is made of. Just passion, excitement and blind following but no pragmatic plan, no understanding of the voters' pulse, no 50 state strategy and ultimately losing to a lousy republican opponent.
Policies don't win elections, the message carrier does. The candidate who fires the imagination of the nation and not one base or section of voters will win the election. Independents and moderate democrats are weary of grand plans that cannot be funded. The conservatives have already labeled us as tax and spend democrats and we continue doing exactly the same to confirm their labels to us.
Social programs is ok but just animosity against and taxing the rich to help the poor will not win this election. America has the largest rich population in the world than any other country. We are not a 3rd world country with starving masses like in Asia, Africa or Latin America. The rich vs. poor game will not work here.
Democrats must talk about the economy, trade, deficit, defense and foreign policy before they talk about how to give goodies to all - especially the middle class and poor. These are the issues that voters prefer republicans and not democrats for. We have been cast as the party that wants to just give things away... just redistribute the wealth through government programs.
We want someone who can beat the republicans in their own game. That man of the hour is NOT old, frail and hunchback Bernie Sanders. Get off this horse as soon as as possible and save big agony for self.
St-Sinner
Level 9
June 4, 2019
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'That man of the hour is NOT old, frail and hunchback Bernie Sanders".
- we will see about that after the debates.
He's only 5 years older than Trump and 2 years older than Joe....and he is far more fit than either of them...mentally and physically.
Age-ism is prejudice...as in "pre-judging" based on pre-conceived notions.
I don't buy it, and I'm said that your prejudice blocks you from seeing the value of age and wisdom.
@Robecology I am not prejudiced but our candidates are making it very difficult to be excited about them. You are forgetting that presidential election is a lot of personality. Please tell me when was the last time a hunchback was elected president in the last 50 years?
I am also trying to wake you all up from your hatred for Trump that you are not realizing what horse you are picking to ride. Bernie is a pony that will not run the general race.You keep ignoring the sad fact that a Jewish, Mormon or gay candidate will not be elected President in America any time soon.
Bernie Sanders will win debates in democratic primaries. He will also be nominated. Let us assume Bernie will also match Trump in general debates.
How will you get the Trump democrats and independents on these questions?
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Why is Bernie talking only about social programs? He is awfully silent on defense, trade and deficit
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What about immigration control? He is what we have done terribly on immigration in the past. Make everyone a citizen and open the borders. Independents do not like that.
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Where the heck is he going to bring all that money from to give everything for free? He can say a lot of things but the country is not ready for punishing the rich for social programs.
We democrats are just crazy about one thing. Social programs. The middle of the road democrats, republicans and independents will not support this. The presidential election is not won by republican or democratic bases. It is won by the middle 5 to 8% voters who are watching. We are talking about the same shit that the country was disgusted about and finally decided to bring Trump in. We are creating the same frustrating conditions that were just ripe for someone crazy like Trump to come in.
We currently do not have a charismatic leader on our side like Bill Clinton and Obama were. All are mediocre. Let me assure you Bernie is not a leader who fire the whole country's imagination. He is popular only among social liberals.
But I understand that love for an idea or a person is hard to give up. It will take another crushing defeat like Al Gore, Dukakis, John Kerry etc.to not talk about them ever again.
@St-Sinner
Now you're talking the issues.
That earns my respect.
Talking about not liking a candidate because he's ...in your words....
"old, frail and hunchback" ...
...pushed the wrong buttons; and makes me doubt your validity.
Then you say...
"We democrats are just crazy about one thing. Social programs."....
WTF?
...where's your data, links or backup for these opinions?
I searched "Bernie Sanders on his views on our defense....also.... views on our economy
and found this. Perhaps you need to read it...
Sorry....I don't buy in to your POV.
@Robecology Talking about issues is useless because issues will not elect a president, an inspiring leader will be elected president. Bernie only inspires social liberals. I cannot convince you enough to understand that personality matters in the general. Bernie is not a presidential candidate. He can do a good job as the HHS Secretary. Bernie reminds me of Dukakis.
Lose the middle...Lose the election. It happens every election. It is that simple. I may not be a centrist, but the the country is. The latest numbers...
D...31%
R...24%
I...42%
Other numbers I have looked at are all with in a point or two of these.
Sticks48
Level 9
June 4, 2019
0
Point taken; and that's been the truth - in the past.
Having said that...
We're at a point where the 'centrist" POV hasn't done much for America.
I'm sure independents are waiting for a progressive push.
@Robecology Independents are made up of ex Dems, ex Repubs, and always have beens. Till the Boomers pass it will be very difficult to vote in someone from too far left. The only way someone on the far left can win is if folks are so sick of Trump they will vote for anyone but Trump. Why do you think Biden's lead stays so large in the polls. Even center leaning Conservatives will vote for him. This election is about one thing...UNSEAT TRUMP!
@Sticks48 I concur with your conclusion; and you're right about the centrist/conservative "boomers" (although I'm a '45 baby who supports progressive/socialism).
Our goal is common; UNSEAT TRUMP....I'm also hoping for this;
@Robecology I am a progressive also. I just don't want to blow it. I really don't know if we could withstand another Trump term.
@Sticks48 I watched Liz Warren last night on MSNBC....she's fired up...what's your opinion on her?
@Robecology Warren has impressed me the most. Harris and Mayor Pete have been impressive too. Warren has real plans and explains them in detail. Her ideas make sense.
This is how Democrats lose elections.
Alienating the vast number of independents and moderates is not a winning strategy.
jerry99
Level 8
June 4, 2019
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