Idealism vs. Cynicism
First, definitions for use here.
An idealist wants the world to be better than it is.
A realist accepts the world as it is.
A cynic wants the world to be worse than it is.
If you dislike those definitions, write your own damn post but please don’t misappropriate my Idealism vs. Cynicism title. I need this discussion in the here and now, not taken back to ancient Greece.
Cynics (of the kind I intend) want the world to be worse than it is so they can hide among its other scoundrels. They don’t want you to know they are here. Got it?
Who wants the two-pointer?
1
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6 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The short of it. A teacher prep course in the late 1950s taught that youthful idealism peaks at about twelve and during the teen years gradually declines to realism. My youthful idealism did not decline.
Four decades later, after much political activity and talk therapy, I came to see my idealism as an escape from my parents’ occasional violence. I don’t know the purpose an extended idealism serves in others’ lives and will not speculate.
yvilletom
Level 8
July 18, 2020
0
A modern definition of cynicism in the OED (and its American offspring, the New Oxford American D, or NOAD):
- an inclination to believe rhat people are motivated by self-interest (rather than acting for honorable or unselfish reasons).
- a school of ancient Greek philosophers. (In NOAD: doglike, churlish.)
yvilletom
Level 8
July 16, 2020
0
I accept the world as it is but I hope it gets better..
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
July 16, 2020
1
To people who seem to believe there was was a golden age in the past, I say the Garden of Eden was a religious myth. It didn’t happen.
I disagree in that it should not include ones wants. How one views the world is a different matter. I consider myself a cynic which means I question most everything. Diogenes of Sinop is considered the father of cynic philosophy. He said that in order to experience the true world one must renounce all ones personal belongings and go live in a barrel with the dogs. It is not what one wants that matters but how one views their surroundings.
JackPedigo
Level 9
July 16, 2020
0
Thank you. Diogenes was Diogenes and lived in his time and place. You are you and etc. I am I and etc..
@yvilletom There are still those that follow him and try to live as he suggested. I personally have known a few. Some of my closest friends have no running water or indoor plumbing (outside shower and composting toilet). They heat with wood and cook outside even in the winter. However, they are the most down-to-earth and loving people I (or many others) have ever known.
@JackPedigo The people you describe are not the cynics of this discussion.
@yvilletom It's all about degree. Lets say we need to agree to disagree. I have followed Diogenes extensively (was based in his hometown - Sinop) and found the subject fascinating.
@JackPedigo I looked at several souces and saw there may have been a highly regarded cynicism with Diogenes and an older lower-regarded cynicism with Antisthenes. A discussion on this would be interesting but it belongs in the Philosophy group.
@yvilletom Yes, it might be and I would have been very interested 20+ years ago. I am past that period now. It was a funny thing being stationed on a US military base named Diogenes Station. Years later his name and philosophy appeared again and I did study him especially after I left the church. But right now my plate is full with other things. Thanks for the comment, though.
I’m a realist because I accept the world is as it is, however I’m also, by your definition, an idealist because that acceptance doesn’t prevent me from wanting it to be better. So that makes me both an idealist and a realist. Since you state clearly these are your definitions we are working with, and you are not interested in any others, I will skip on the cynicism because I can’t agree that you’ve got the definition right.
Marionville
Level 10
July 16, 2020
1
Thank you. I regularly swung between idealism and cynicism, passing through realism on each swing.
The ancient Greeks defined cynicism in a way that fit their times. Is there a word you would use for people who want the world to be worse than it is? I met some of them.
@yvilletom Depressing bastards is the only term springing to mind....but I’ll get back to you if I think of a better one!
As a Realist, I want the world to better as I recognize that it is not headed that way. Yet, I do NOT want the world to be worse than it is, just to halt what it is doing and reverse course.
SiouxcitySue
Level 8
July 16, 2020
0
@SiouxcitySue, I left out that a realist accepts the world as it is. I took a long damn time swinging like a pendulum to get there.
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