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Hi. I just joined this group. I'm here because, after four marriages and divorces, it's pretty clear that I have a problem acknowledging red flags and making the distinction between decent men and dirt bags. The last marriage was the most horrific of the lot and has me convinced I have gotten worse at it, rather than better, over the years. While realizing that life is short and this is the only one we get, I am still not in any hurry to become emotionally entangled, although I do enjoy making friends. I'm frank and open about my own experiences and not easily ruffled. I'm strong and independent, but sincerely tired of being the only one in a relationship doing all of the emotional heavy lifting. I'm here to learn and read, so I may ask more questions than impart any wisdom.

Deb57 8 July 24
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18 comments

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1

There is a definite pattern here. I would recommend genuinely exploring your relationships in your formative years: both parents or guardians, any step parents, older siblings, aunts or uncles, cousins, etc. I would bet money on it that one or more of these people were narcissists. And one of their main tools of control was manipulation via guilt... hence your susceptibility to sob stories. I was raised by a narc mother and accidentally dated a covert narc (the nice variety with a cult like group of friends) for a few months after she died. I was lucky in that I am not easily trusting and had experience with a narc to investigate him further. The fallout with him was malicious and confidence breaking I intentionally stopped dating for 2 years. I am still susceptible to being guilted by men or family in my life to this day, but keeping it on the forefront of my mind, rather than denying it and blindly trusting everyone, I am catching on to guilting tactics faster and easier these days. I would recommend identifying the narcs in your life, getting therapy to address said residual long lasting effects of this early relationship and then living your life with this in mind to prevent yourself from becoming victimized further. Best of luck to you

1

After the 2nd divorce I decided I had the judgement of a drunken newt on my best days......no more marriage, thankyuvurrymuch!

AnneWimsey Level 9 July 25, 2020

I can relate. But I was a slower learner.

Snap..

2

You are strong . While it might be nice to have a good man , they are not essential . If you're better off without , than with the type that come your way , consider remaining without . It may be in your best interests . You may also want to consider where and how you're meeting the men you've had in your life . If you're tired of being with alcoholics , but go back to bars to meet men , then realize , that's where you go to meet alcoholics .

Cast1es Level 9 July 25, 2020

I met the first husband in a bar. We were both too young to be in there. I don't like going to bars. I have pretty much concluded that being alone is much better than being with the wrong partner. I won't ever settle again.

1

Do U care, are U ready to share your age & approximate location? those are important!!

guynoir Level 6 July 24, 2020

I'm 63, and nope... not sharing my location.

1

Lol. Why spoil a good thing by getting married. Learn to love yourself before loving others.

FrayedBear Level 9 July 24, 2020
1

Don't feel so badly, or be so negative.

Look at it this way...you 'committed" to making a relationship work...in public, in a ceremony. You tried really hard. And you wisely got out when things turned sour.

I applaud your efforts - and I've been there, myself; 4 marriages...3 divorces. (The first one I became single due to her passing from Cancer at a very young age).

So don't think you have much to learn...you are who you are...good and bad...pretty much set in your ways. You've kept your health and made it to "maturity" so good for you.

You are wise. You made wise decisions at the time. Assume that much.

Robecology Level 9 July 24, 2020
1

Have you asked yourself: "why do I keep choosing men who treat me like shit?"

BitFlipper Level 8 July 24, 2020

I sure have. The last marriage I thought I had broken my pattern, and he turned out to be the most abusive.

@Deb57 It does sound like a solid pattern. I've heard more of these stories than I can remember. It's almost like some women are only attracted to abusive men. Please take a break from relationships and focus on counseling and introspection.

I have my own misery and I've been doing counseling for several years, and my experience is that it helps. It's difficult and painful but it's slowly helps.

@Radu My last husband pretended for 17 years. I finally caught him betraying me and the mask dropped completely. I had been brushing aside many red flags, it seems.

1

If you haven’t already, consider seeing a therapist or at least reading books about relationships.
When I started therapy after my divorce, I was surprised we spent so much time talking about my family of origin. I just wanted to know why I married the person I did.
I quickly learned that we often partner with someone who has the same personality traits or problematic behaviors as people in prior relationships (family or other). We do it because we are used to managing the familiar, and THIS partner seems easier/safer/etc. than the person before.
It was certainly true for me, and that knowledge has helped me recognize those traits faster now, so I don’t waste time on people who aren’t a good match for me.
I also learned in therapy some of the things I was doing wrong, so I will be a better partner, too.
I hope you find the answers you need to break patterns and find lasting happiness either single or partnered.

UUNJ Level 8 July 24, 2020

One of my best friends is a therapist. She has been very helpful. Even more helpful has been a former friend of my former husband. She is the one who help me define the traits of narcissistic personality disorder. I have been doing my own research on that for the past two years, discovering what traits I have that attract narcissists and men who want to use women. It has been enlightening.

0

Welcome and Enjoy

RoyMillar Level 9 July 24, 2020
1

Welcome

bobwjr Level 10 July 24, 2020
2

I thought... "I am not in a hurry to become emotionally entangled" was the best sentence in your paragraph.

Welcome! We have a many good men here, I hope you will find your companion here.

St-Sinner Level 9 July 24, 2020
1

ask questions. we all do

TheDoubter Level 9 July 24, 2020
2

Hi Deborah, and welcome. Only four? I'm one ahead of you. And all of them except one were enjoyable and beneficial experiences for both. One was a nightmare, and I don't waste any time talking about it. But it all comes down to making good choices...which is easier said than done.

mischl Level 8 July 24, 2020
2

Hi.. welcome. 🙂

Davekp Level 8 July 24, 2020
2

Your shared experiences reminded my of my own life; and it has been and continues to happy, healthy, and satisfying. It took me the first 30 years to realize that i had to become honest about my own needs, especially with myself. There is no other way to truly love oneself, a critical element in my life.

Managing relationships functionally is the most difficult challenge most people experience. But most aren't taught about the really hard work it takes to make a loving relationship work so both partners are relatively satisfied. So I certainly empathize with your dilemma, if that's what it is for you.

I've always been introspective and reflective, and have often been told that i think too much; it's a criticism i've never accepted believing that such a comment reflects a need to avoid "the heavy lifting."

Ultimately my view has been confirmed and those relationships have ended. After grieving and moving on, i've ensured that blame and blaming, especially self-blame, has not become a part of my paradigm.

Since my 40s, i enter into any relationship with a person i feel myself caring about with a warning label that i can be a high-maintenance friend and lover, refusing to settle for less than total honesty and demonstrated respect. These are non-negotiable if someone wants to have a relationship with me.

If that's too hard for another person, then they're obviously not a keeper,. LOL

I wish you well.

josephr Level 7 July 24, 2020
2

you certainly speak from experience

TheDoubter Level 9 July 24, 2020
3

Four marriages? How long did you know these men before getting married?

First marriage: about 7 months. We were both 19 - just babies, ourselves. Had been engaged 3 months when I got pregnant. This was the father of both of my children. The marriage lasted 4 1/2 years. He was emotionally abusive and was becoming physically abusive. He is still in the area and has 2 other kids from a second marriage. He betrayed that wife after almost 3 decades with her. He has 4 children, none of whom will willingly speak to him.

9 years passed. I dated guys.

Second marriage: Nice guy from extremely dysfunctional upbringing. He expected a wife to be a sort of amiable, emotionally supportive servant with sex benefits, but with no expectation of reciprocating the same level of support. The best way to describe our relationship was as if I owned a hotel and he was the only guest. He became obsessed with another woman and after a few months that caused the end of our marriage. 61/2 years - 5 cohabitating. We keep in touch and are friendly... at arms' length.

Just a few months later:

Third marriage: All I can say is that I knew I was making a mistake going in. He caught me on the rebound and wouldn't take "no" or even "slow down" for an answer. We were together a year, part of that time living together. Before the wedding I could do no wrong, after the wedding I couldn't do anything right. I decided life was just too short to be in tears all the time. I ended the marriage in about 6 months. He went on to marry three or so more women - his daughter lost count. He died a couple years ago. I just feel sad for him that he couldn't attain what he couldn't attain.

3 years passed

Ross and I met online. We were just friends for a couple of years. We chatted, but no flirting. He was married and I was dating people. That's how it was for about 2 years. I was going through a stressful break up of a dating relationship about the time he was ending his marriage, and our friendship evolved after that point, via long internet chats and phone calls. We had met in person through our common hobby a time or two - again, strictly platonic. We started dating, if you can call it that when one person lives in IL and the other in SD. Plane trips and long road trips. Dates sometimes lasted several days. He moved in with me after about half a year of that and we lived together a year before marrying. I was sure he was the one. I ignored some serious red flags, but the sacrifices and concessions I made were so gradual over 17 years of marriage that I always excused them. But I loved, was supportive, kept his home, tolerated his quirks... until I caught him cheating. And paying his mistress regularly from our checking account. And hitting up my 80-something year old mother for money, vehicles, etc. - in essence, robbing my family. He had racked up - and was still racking up - mountains of debt. Turns out that the man I had loved and trusted for 18 years wasn't even who this guy was. He was playing a role and leading a secret life. It took me a month and a half to get him to move out of the house after he told me he wanted to leave me. I got an excellent lawyer who knew how to recognize and deal with malignant narcissism. Divorced him in February of 2018 and am still reeling and healing from that. As you can imagine, I have some serious trust issues now.

That's the short version. 😉

2

welcome

TheDoubter Level 9 July 24, 2020
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