If I am generally sick of North American narcissistic personality disorder as a national personality, when it comes to a relationship with a woman it drifts in and out. I may get shouted down by saying this but women are the new men.
Since women's liberation and the New Age movement, it seems that genders have to plot a new course in relationships. I am definitely good with gender equality but there is never an instruction manual for social change.
I adore women but I don't adore North Americans. I am a North American. There is this saying; "looking out for number one." Is this the banner for dynamic individualism (William James)? Please, don't yell at me and try to consider the outlier although it obvious to psychologists and sociologists that gender roles are in flux.
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17 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.When you speak about North America....you mean Canada, US and Mexico? All 3 countries?
magnoliarosada
Level 4
Nov 12, 2019
0
Women are still attracted to men who have their shit together and don't bitch and moan. I guess they're just less likely these days to depend on men for their happiness and well-being, be it emotional or physical. No problem, I totally respect that. A level playing field for everyone. Equality rocks. 
It seems men who are secure enough in themselves are significantly less likely to complain about such trivial matters. Think about that a while.
Shawno1972
Level 7
Oct 17, 2019
1
Not sure I understand this post, but here's what I have to offer:
For decades, American women have been examining their roles in society, their choices, their options, and have been coordinating to improve their position in society. Meanwhile, men have done virtually nothing.
BitFlipper
Level 8
Oct 10, 2019
1
Oh, wow...I just got dumped in the middle of the night (3 a.m.) by a narcissist I had been seeing for over four months. He unexpectedly went back to his ex-gf. I gave this man everything you could imagine. I am an educated, self-sufficient women, and I paid for dinners, cooked him his favorite food, supplied him with garden-grown fruit and veggies, homemade soup, took him to concerts, played music for him, and never denied him anything intimate. We never had a disagreement. God, I was good to this man. All he thought of was his own bottom line. I took a risk and lost. Should I be less generous next time? I got my heart excised and squashed. :'( So, I don't believe it's just women who are narcissistic. I originally thought romance at my age would be simple, because we tend to know ourselves better. However, I found that many older people carry more baggage.
Organist1
Level 8
Oct 10, 2019
2
My hope is to sing duets, build my own harpsichord, and pick up where John&Yoko left off....my only "baggage" is 2 Service Cats Kiti7&Laila10 a lifetime commitment to their love with me......and I hate crisco blended machine ground peanuts....I will always be 100% generous and you did nothing wrong to be so loving...what is your favorite food ? Beware that asshole might get tired of "her" again and come crawling back to you.....keep the door locked and chained.....call the cops when he trespasses not leaving your doorstep or hounding you by phone
@GreenAtheist Sing duets and build a harpsichord? Now you're speaking my language. I worked as a piano tuner for many years. Good advice about locking my door. The whole thing began with him "love-bombiing" me 24/7 by phone, text and messenger. That should have been a red flag, as narcissists use this tactic. Luckily, he lives out of state. I fell in love with the wrong guy. What kind of music do you like? I am classically trained, but love it all. BTW, my favorite food is either peanut butter or cheesecake, but I rarely allow myself to indulge. What's yours?
I wish I had some advice for you. I also wish I had someone take that much interest in me. WTF is wrong with people?
@Organist1 did you use instrumentation tuning piano or do you have perfect pitch in your dreams like me ?
@GreenAtheist I have perfect pitch, but I do use an A440 tuning fork to set the first note.
Trying to parse this. Are you saying women are becoming less nurturing and family-oriented (ie. more traditional man-like)? If you look at women as the traditional "lubricant" that allowed society to function-nest makers, situation de-fusers, family-focused allowing men to go "hunt" for success and a paycheck,etc. I would agree. But the question is-do we see this as a bad thing or simply as a continuing shift in society that expands the opportunities for the female side while demanding males accept new responsibilities? And is this new or merely recognized more widely? As others have posted, women have been expanding their impact beyond the nursery/kitchen for a long time. And it has been a good thing.
RonWilliam53
Level 7
Oct 9, 2019
5
It is not even about being non-traditional... young people in cities literally cannot survive on one income anymore. So being career-oriented is a matter of survival in a capitalistic society, where wages have not kept up with inflation and rising costs.
@demifeministgal I hear you. I've got two married sons in their 30s.
This is very confusing. Although I have noticed a shift in the way young women present themselves, it appears that the young men are somewhat comfortable with that. As a woman who helped crack the glass ceiling in IT, back when it was called data processing, I am proud of my personal accomplishments and the skills I developed along the way. I do admit to penis envy when on a picnic, but not any other time and I do NOT want to be a man. Are you writing about your experience with every North American (regardless of ethnicity) woman, or just one or two women in particular. You are stereotyping North American women, Yukon Territory through Mexico. A lot of estrogen there.
SiouxcitySue
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
9
The whole "picnic"issue is the reason I know God isn't a woman. Yes, a well-placed kick will leave us squirming on the ground for a very long time but as long as there are trees, we have an outlet for our let out, picnic or side of a jammed interstate. (Voice of experience)
@RonWilliam53 Ugh, only time I wish I had a dick is when I gotta pee outdoors
Frankly I am embarrassed by my "brother" post against sisterhood....his "sick"ness is self induced....he is my age and oblivious to gender justice legislation passed and proposed since our puberty years 1963-1970 adulthood
@GreenAtheist I certainly agree with you, but also get the impression he has had one or two traumatic situations which made him very bitter.
@SiouxcitySue he hides bitterness and any pain behind pseudointellectual gibberish.....we should not guess what lurks behind his mental masturbation and just confront him to fish or cut bait
@SiouxcitySue hell his situations did not even have to be traumatic but could have hurt his pride or he could have been rejected or mocked repeatedly by western women, which has lead to the bitterness... incels are a prime example of the latter phenomenon.
@demifeministgal Sorry, I don't know the term incels. Also, what we might see as just a simple rejection (if a rejection is ever simple) was actually traumatic to him.
@demifeministgal, @Marcie1974 My point!
@SiouxcitySue I think we do a disservice to genuine trauma and water down that term if we use it for simple things such as being rejected by a potential date.... I am not one to give men that sound like sexists the benefit of the doubt though, so there's also that.
It is a good thing you do not know what they are.... incels: a portmanteau of "involuntary celibates", are members of an online subculture[1][2] who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one, a state they describe as inceldom.[3]
Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misogyny,[4] misanthropy,[1] self-pity,[5] self-loathing,[6] racism,[4] a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active people.[4][7][8][9][10] The American nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center described the subculture as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem" that is included in their list of hate groups.[11][12]
At least four mass murders, resulting in 45 deaths, have been committed in North America by men who have either self-identified as incels or who had mentioned incel-related names and writings in their private writings or Internet postings. Incel communities have been criticized by the media and researchers for being misogynistic, encouraging violence, spreading extremist views, and radicalizing their members
@demifeministgal Thank you, demi, for the information. Now I'm scared. No more online dating for me.
Women in North America encompass a wide range, just as they do everywhere. Many pay lip service about gender equality but we are far from that goal, no ERA, misogyny is rampant, we make less money, rape culture, etc.
Gender roles have been shifting since the late 19th century when the movement for voting rights and other equalities gained momentum. It has only been about 100 years that we have been allowed to vote. WWII brought another wave of change when laborers were needed in the factories and we had Rosie the Riveter.
If one views a relationship as 2 equals there should be no issues. Should I be expected to sit by the phone as women did generations ago?
Instruction manual-be respectful.
MizJ
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
9
Excellent reply!
MizJ:
@SiouxcitySue Thank you
I agree but also feel, like everything else it is more complicated than we (want to) think. There are women who actually get in the way of the movement either out of shortsightedness or because they think they know a better way. I just read this and was a bit shocked at how some leaders which we have come to see as heroes (Elizabeth C. Stanton and Susan B. Antony) actually harmed the cause. The article felt a big part of the problem was (and still is) Christianity. [smithsonianmag.com]
It has recently come to light in a study that appeared in the Scientific American about a subject which has been called the "Matilda Effect" [medium.com] It was in the Smithsonian article.
I am one who believes there are a lot of things at work in shaping a society many of which are natural and not because of some evil doings.
MizJ:
@JackPedigo For years I have called that by a less delicate name, the "Not Having a Penis Effect".
Christianity is only one of the major religions that has been less than equal in the treatment of females.
@JackPedigo Oh yes, there were definitely 2 forms of thought regarding gaining the right to vote. Same with equal rights in the 70’s.
Some get tired of asking nicely and get more assertive. I’m not sure which gets more done
MizJ:
@Marcie1974 When some get more assertive they are labeled bitches. We have a long way to go.
@MizJ indeed we do, feels like we’ve reverted back a few decades 
MizJ:
@Marcie1974 Indeed. I had hoped the Me Too Movement would have more impact, sadly this hasn't happened. I consider the fact that we still haven't ratified the ERA at a minimum to be a stain on our country.
MizJ:
@Marcie1974 And yes, it has been a while since I have seen forward movement in re to women's issues. SAD
@Marcie1974 Sometimes it takes a combination. Unfortunately, people cannot be generalized and sometimes women get in their own way. Did you see the article from the Smithsonian I mentioned above?
MizJ:
@JackPedigo Science is not the only platform that women have been erased. The book "The Secret Mongol Queens" comes to mind. ( I may have gotten the name a bit wrong)
@MizJ The report I read about and (I think) posted was about how when women are not included in studies in which they took part then, after a while, it is assumed they have made no contributions so it's harder to get recognition. Often, to get studies funded, women have to have a male included and the problem is exacerbated. I have even read that Albert Einstein's wife contributed and actually did many of his discoveries. All she got in return was abuse. This is changing and it's about time.
MizJ:
@JackPedigo I only skim read it, but yes, that was one of their points.
Instead of role analysis for toddlers, just try talking face to face with real people in your neighborhood and leave North America alone with your gibberish post
GreenAtheist
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
0
You are stupid as fuck. Women are still not legally equal to you boys....we need one more state to ratify E. R. A.....it is completely idiotic to type "women are new men" unless some (plural) have impregnated you??????? You have insulted my 2 daughters 44&25....so clarify your worthless drivel or just delete this stupid dung post of yours
GreenAtheist
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
2
You have posted nothing but sexist innuendo....all people from North Pole to Canal Zone are narcissists but you ?????????? Gender roles have nothing to do with you society of ONE not needing an instruction manual if there is one.....so what is your complaint ???? Zero females are instructing you into new habits or old ???????
GreenAtheist
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
1
“Women are the new men”
So basically you’re saying women are treating men the way that men have been treating women???
So basically it’s ok for men to treat women poorly but not the other way around?
Marcie1974
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
10
@Doraz kind of like when people say they don’t want to be a minority in their own country. Why? Are minorities treated poorly?
I want to yes because it has served us well. Why would I give up the privileges I was born with... ?
@St-Sinner by served “us” I assume you mean men. Women should continue to be treated as less than, simply because we have a vagina?
@Marcie1974
No but I don't want to give up privileges I got for just being born. Do you know what getting things for doing nothing means?
@St-Sinner that is the common misconception... you would not be giving them up, you would be SHARING them, it would be a truly meritocratic dynamic.... but some people suck at sharing and feel it means they are losing something... selfish :/
There have been severe attacks on man's rights over time already. Men have fought wars, died to protect families, societies, civilization, they have hunted, brought bacon home, built the world, brought order to societies, men have been great fathers, sons, brothers, husbands but there have been constant assaults on man's rights. First monogamy, then equality, now MeToo? I see no gratitude here. lol
@St-Sinner poor men have it so rough. You hardly ever see men in government protecting male rights.....oh wait
@St-Sinner LOL men barred women from contributing in wars (as soldiers/combatants) until very recently, women have helped build the world too, in fact the majority of unpaid labour to this day is done by women, men have STOLEN contributions to science and technology made by women or failed to mention a woman's contributions at all, and women have been great mother's, daughters, sisters, wives all while putting up with violent and/or condescending men our entire existence.
But tell me and the others, just what RIGHTS are you being denied solely for being a man.... because all those thing you listed are not men being denied rights... so consult someone smarter than yourself who can help you understand what human rights are and then get back to us.
@St-Sinner so monogamy is an attack on men's rights???? For every man who fought in a war there was likely a woman or a girl child who was raped or murderedr as a side effect of war. Who cooked up the freakin' bacon and plucked the chickens and picked the crops and sewed the clothes and allowed their bodies to be used as incubators for the next generation of men? You are sooooo put-upon.
@St-Sinner What's with this "blaming women" thing that's going around? Everyone wants to secure his/her position in this world, and strive for a leg up when things seem unfair - do you blame them for trying? It would seem so. So they should just bend to a man's will just because that condition better appeals to your desires? Fuckin' get it together, man. No one owes you or me any gratitude; we all do our share.
@Shawno1972
I want men not blaming women and women not blaming men, men not blaming men and women not blaming women. I want everybody to achieve on own.
@St-Sinner Sounds very utopia. Kewl. You're not exactly contributing toward that goal on this thread, here, though - what with the comment about "severe attacks on men's rights." That sounds so sour-grapey.
- What are you comparing North American women to? Asian - submissive types or anything else?
- If you are not against gender equality, can you please be clear what are you opposed to exactly - MeToo? Feminism?
St-Sinner
Level 9
Oct 9, 2019
2
Gods in the Underworld. You paint with a broad brush about Asian women. I am not against radical anything because sometimes it is needed but polarization will ensue.
What I am noticing is that all the freethinkers here are self-deluded.
You seem to be talking about two different subjects at once.
As you must know, not all North Americans are alike but yet you seem to paint them all with a broad brush.
dare2dream
Level 7
Oct 9, 2019
5
It has been said by sociologists and psychologists, for at least a decade and a half that narcissistic personality disorder is at epidemic proportions.
If I am here, you are here and we all here, I can do some painting. As far as what has been tracked by the above soft scientists, it is solid research but perhaps generational. I'm not quite sure how this breaks down from generation to generation.
Again, I made a mistake. I shouldn't be on this website because I am a freethinker and most here are not. Live long and prosper. I am gone. You folks need to free yourselves.
Please explain more?
RoyMillar
Level 9
Oct 9, 2019
1
I can't take North American Divinely Ordained Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This has been a male sickness now blankets everyone.
I will be a feminist but not a radical one. I was raised by women, a mother and three older sisters. The vagaries you allude to are the vagaries of soft sciences like psychology and sociology. If you can wrap your mind around gender differences, you may catch some of what I imply.
I am not able to talk to loaded people. I am not loaded with anything, no religion, no stance towards any philosophical position, no blinders, no epistemological or ontological positioning. I am just an observer and have come to certain conclusions which you have further strengthened.
Let me put this in concrete terms: North Americans are fucked up, regardless of gender and milieu. So why would women be exempt? It has been well documented by psychologists and sociologists that narcissistic personality disorder is at epidemic proportions. Epidemiology is based on communicability; I sneeze, you get a cold? What communicates this disorder?
To generalize and group anyone together seems egotistical, but I may be missing your point. Maybe look at what you are really feeling, seems to vague what you are saying.
Outsideit67
Level 7
Oct 9, 2019
3
I'll not consider anything I don't understand as "egotistical". I'll just consider something I don't understand as needing some kind of research or explanation.
It's not vague in the social sciences and psychology. A female responder asked me "What about me gets your goat (I have no farm animals)? Nothing! This is what I am saying; Relationships between North American men are women are poisoned by narcissistic personality disorder and feminism wants equality. It is given by me and all good men.
Relax and refrain from marching in locked steps. All I am saying is North Americans, and I was schooled in adding "North" by a South American, with the divorce rates skyrocketing and relationships powered by "I am right and you're wrong" is fueled by a blanket narcissism.
Go ahead, call me a narcissist on the basis that you disagree with something you don't fully understand. Think you are "outsideit" but I am not seeing anything but "insideit" in this ecosystem.
I'm here because it feels more like home. I am finding out that it is not and you think I am looking for women to be June Cleaver from Leave it to Beaver? There is nothing in my statement that implies that BUT there are gender differences that always made me comfortable in a relationship.
I would love a discussion without throwing charges at me like Fox "news" Christians do with no epistemological basis, just locked-stepped marching orders. Keep in mind, there are bigots for the left too.
Well this is vague as fck and comes across as you wanting women in their place.... what are these traits you disliked in men that you imagine north american women to have? 
And as someone that has studied both those fields, the roles are slightly shifting and becoming more accommodating. BUT, most people still adhere to their gender roles... no need to sound the alarmist bells just yet.
demifeministgal
Level 8
Oct 9, 2019
6
Not at all. Are you loaded with radical feminism? I can't take North American Divinely Ordained Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This has been a male sickness now blankets everyone.
I will be a feminist but not a radical one. I was raised by women, a mother and three older sisters. The vagaries you allude to are the vagaries of soft sciences like psychology and sociology. If you can wrap your mind around gender differences, you may catch some of what I imply.
I am not able to talk to loaded people. I am not loaded with anything, no religion, no stance towards any philosophical position, no blinders, no epistemological or ontological positioning. I am just an observer and have come to certain conclusions which you have further strengthened.
Let me put this in concrete terms: North Americans are fucked up, regardless of gender and milieu. So why would women be exempt? It has been well documented by psychologists and sociologists that narcissistic personality disorder is at epidemic proportions. Epidemiology is based on communicability; I sneeze, you get a cold? What communicates this disorder?
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