"Why Did God Create Atheists?
There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.
One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”
The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)"
36
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
24 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.A question I have posed to many christians (and one that always seems to
hang them up) is, if your god created everything, isn't it wrong for you to
disrespect ANY of your god's creations? You know, like gay people, and atheists.
They can never answer that. Never.
Instead, they resort to insults and name-calling.
KKGator
Level 9
July 7, 2019
8
good one!
they probably rationalize that even god can have a bad day.
@callmedubious all knowing and all powerful and perfect
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
God I hate this. "For the moment". Fuck that, do it all the time and tell your god that when he starts taking care of his own damn creations you'll worship it again.
1of5
Level 8
July 7, 2019
7
if there is a god why did it make so much fucked shit like poison plants and animals. Birth defects and diseases that kill and cripple. The storms, droughts, earthquakes, tornadoes, volcanoes that kill millions of people.
@benhmiller Perhaps because humans aren’t it’s main point of interest the same way that we peel some vegetables. The peel is there but not necessarily going to be part of our meal.
@benhmiller ,
gotta keep the believers scared shitless of retribution.
@Geoffrey51 really we are made in its image not the main point really you going that way are you sure you are not religious nut
@benhmiller Nah. The religious context makes some people think they are special creations and this anthropocentric view distorts our lived experience. We are thinking beings on a rock in space and share the same fragility as everything else here.
Natural forces will play out regardless of our perceived ‘specialness’
@benhmiller because he loves us.....lol
Just to piss"them" off.
I wonder how many believers would then think this through to its logical conclusion, which would be to see that they did not need to invoke god to do the right thing by their fellow humans, but in fact were better able to help than any prayer could......so by extension, that belief in god is completely superfluous!
Marionville
Level 10
July 8, 2019
5
I get were do i get my morals from being atheist I tell them don't need to rewarded or threatened to know what is right.
benhmiller
Level 7
July 7, 2019
3
When I was in the Catholic church I remember several lessons (which are ignored by those doing the preaching) and one was the concept of Agape love. We were taught that it is "...the highest level of love known to humanity: a selfless love that is passionately committed to the well-being of others." It should transcend any idea of reward or punishment and be done simply for the sake that it is genuine. To me it is a form of altruism. Unfortunately, in the world of fundamentalism that idea has been completely forgotten.
JackPedigo
Level 9
July 8, 2019
3
There is no god so there is no creation of anything.
BufftonBeotch
Level 8
July 8, 2019
3
Martin Buber was one of the great existential philosophers. Can’t go wrong there!
Geoffrey51
Level 8
July 7, 2019
2
By the story then... to do the right, moral thing you have to dissociate yourself from God. Then of course they want you to come back (in time to give money I presume).
The story rings true. /snark
Except for the part about religious Students or especially Masters being right or moral.
At that point my bs detector goes off the scale and I reach the limit of my ability to suspend disbelief.
RichCC
Level 8
July 7, 2019
3
you're not supposed to suspend disbelief. a story doesn't have to be factual to be true.
g
@genessa sorry the facts are what makes a story true other wise it is just a story made up!
@benhmiller well THAT's ridiculous. aesop's fables are useless because a fox can't talk? fairy tales are useless? (they're only useless if you believe they're factual; they're not useless in terms of giving children an outlet for their fears and other emotions). you only read nonfiction? novels are of no use to you? factual and true are NOT the same. they're related; they're not the same.
g
@genessa. @benhmiller. I suspend my belief in facts when appropriate to accept the underlying story.
One of my earliest scifi reads was Cities In Flight by James Blish. In the story he said there would never be electronics on Jupiter because the great pressure makes it too hard to maintain a vacuum. Suspending disbelief in statements that later turn out to be difficult doesn't detract from the story.
But there are limits. What's that old story that no one ever sincerely goes to Seminary school and graduates believing in God?
Eventually the underlying premise becomes unsustainable. I can accept that students start with good, honorable intentions but at some point they have to give up their sincerity or honesty or at the very least their forthrightness to finish.
I've heard people admit when asked uncomfortable questions that they 'just don't look at it too close'. I'm sorry but that level is past my limit. I won't disassociate myself from someone over that sort of idea. But at that point I will have lost a lot of respect for them.
@RichCC i believe in looking closely lol. but one of my favorite stories has the ba'al shem tov in it (he existed, and was considered by some to be the messiah, but of course never said he was the messiah -- he founded chassidism, which has in many ways become the opposite of what the besht, as he is abbreviated, intended -- at any rate it's about the difference between speaking and listening), one of my favorite jokes has st. peter in it (and i was never even christian! -- anyway it's an anti-dan quayle joke and translates beautifully into an anti-trump joke) and another one of my favorite stories has god, the devil and a bit of magic in it (it's about literacy). i take meaning in each of them and i don't have to believe there is a god, a devil or a st. peter (or a heaven, which is in that story too) to appreciate their messages. the message of the story to which we are all responding is a good one. you don't have to believe in any gods to appreciate it. no compromise of principles and no suspension of disbelief beyond the usual is necessary. btw, sf is a good example of the usefulness of things that are true without being factual. if it's written well it has truth in it even if the facts are out of this world!
g
To test our (their) faith! lol
TheGreatShadow
Level 9
July 7, 2019
3
um, no, that's not what the story says at ALL!
g
@genessa Well done G!
A point also often made by Christopher Hitchens, but with a somewhat different lesson intended.
jeshuey
Level 8
July 7, 2019
3
Can you actually imagine a god that requires worship being worth anything at all?
It seems a really base need for such an advanced being.
I'll stick with being a good atheist always. 
Love the story and it's often one of the first things I argue human morality and it's development throughout human history and pre history. We have always had a need to create god's as well as morality tales
DerrickWelsh
Level 3
July 8, 2019
2
Because someone has to think reasonably for the majority of bone heads in the world. Sort of why did god create the GOP. =0}
Mooolah
Level 8
July 20, 2019
1
I'd like to blame God for the Republicans, in fact that is the only reason I can think of, so I may have to rethink this agnosticsm/atheism thing.
God did make everything but being atheist is a choice I know , I used to be one. God gave us free will to choose, and a mind to think for yourself. God is not responsible for the choices you make.
Sometimes prayer is all you can do based on the situation and distance from the person you want to help. Also helping someone is also a choice you make and the choices we make have a lot
to do with the environment you grew up in and things you learned growing up. Some choices have serious consequences and some of us learn from those experiences. Bottom line is we're all a work in progress.
Your punctuation could use some work. Are you saying you used to be an Atheist? My experience is if you pray in one hand and s--t in the other, you get better results on the other hand. I used to be an xian, what an enormous waste of time and energy. Give me science and clear thinking any day.
Enjoy being online again!
Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.Create your free account
Share this post
Related Groups More
World Music
1359 members
Categories
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.