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There are many well known atheists, agnostics and scientists who have said, and without much emphasis, that the supernatural doesn't exist. This to me, is the most important because the supernatural is where all immaterial entities reside. Everything from garden fairies to gods, from Santa Claus to the tooth fairy. The believers in God just can't let go of that last delusion; they can't admit that heaven does not exist.real.

  1. If you think about or try to imagine heaven, what is there, if anything?
  2. Do you consider belief in the supernatural to be delusional?
GROG 6 Aug 16
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22 comments

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6

There is an actual description of Heaven in the Byble. There, you will sing praises to gawd 24/7/365. Period.
Scared the bejeezus outta me when I read it

And, all the perfection and purity seemed a bit too much for me. GROG

6

Supernatural is a term for all of those things beyond comprehension. As human life progresses, it's becoming far easier to prune the list. Now the only thing for me is the vast unknown that still lies out of reach and therefore fascinating. Love reading up on space.

Mimee Level 6 Aug 16, 2020

I couldn't have said it better. I totally agree.

im also struck by how little we know of species and etc too tho; how is it possible that we still know of less than half of the species on earth?

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  1. N/A. I do not think about or try to imagine heaven.
  2. YES.
4

The problem with supernatural is that it is, again, about how things affect humans. Yes, there are many things that can't be explained but that doesn't mean they are all human centered.

3

There are many unexplainable things in life.

3

I don't think about or try to imagine heaven
believing in the supernatural is delusional.

Agreed! How was it talking with the Russians? GROG

@GROG I only got to talk to one, emigrating from the old U.S.S.R. to the U.S.
It wasn't an interrogation because he wanted to tell EVERYTHING he knew ... most just asking questions and then follow up questions.

3

I think people use the word "supernatural" to indicate some definite thing or phenomenon they have in mind. I don't believe in "the supernatural"; I have a lot of trouble trying to believe in things for which there's no evidence.

I do strongly believe in the unknown, and I'm comfortable not knowing.

2

i would send those guys up to skinwalker ranch lol, and let them explain what goes on there! 🙂
interesting to me that those same guys would surely admit that we know of less than 6% of all that exists, according to our calculations, and the rest is "dark?"
1)No one has ever gone up to heaven...
2)the Japanese water guy, i forget the title of his books right now, has done experiments that can be reproduced, and cannot be explained, on our ability to manipulate water with our minds, fwiw

The Hidden Messages in Water, Masaru Emoto

Thanks for the book info. I read only the Prologue and it seems Emoto is looking at some kind of a physical reason for the "supernatural", but it is the human mind that is doing all the work. Maybe I should read the book?
Do you have any comment on the book? GROG
GROG

@GROG the bulk of it was images of water from diff sources frozen into crystals, highlighting the effects of manufactured water; but there is an interesting cloud experiment in the back which i guess was documented, ppl trying to will clouds to either dissipate or accumulate

@bbyrd009 Thanks. Emoto seems to be into pseudo-science from what I read on wikipedia.
Stay safe. GROG

@GROG well i never researched it, just recalled the supposedly scientific experiment done in the back of the book

2

I only tried to imagine heaven while in my church daze. The whole idea is preposterous !

It is sad that people are still buying it. GROG

it isnt those who are well that need a physician, but those who are sick

2

I have never tried to imagine heaven...as it’s something I’ve never believed exists. Belief in the supernatural is an attempt by some to find explanation for what they find incomprehensible. There are many things that we humans are unable to comprehend, not because they belong in the realms of the supernatural, but because we humans have not yet been able to figure them out. There will no doubt be a logical scientific explanation for everything we find mysterious, and perhaps some time in the future, more advanced generations of humans will be able to solve them.

The thing that bothers me, I guess, is that believers think that the supernatural is "our there" somewhere, when it's really inside their brain. What is there that we can't imagine; even heaven if you think about it? GROG

@GROG dingdingdingding....

2

As Belinda Carlisle said, heaven is a place on earth. The label supernatural is given to things humans don't know how to explain but science can explain without a doubt.

Earth, the only place we can be, so if heaven ain't here it ain't nowhere. GROG

@GROG I did get to 'debrief' one russian emigrating to the US back in 1986. He was atheist and glad to be out of Russia. Took him 10 years and a couple of kick-the-door-down in the middle of the nights to finally get out.

2
  1. Better to ask a Xian. The answers you'll get are hilarious. Some that I've gotten from them are:
    -- In Heaven you can fly, not like in an airplane but like Superman
    -- In Heaven food is made of light so you can eat all you want and never get fat
    -- In Heaven everyone gets a free house, apt, condo, or mansion
    -- In Heaven you will be laughing and happy 24/7 for eternity

  2. It's delusional to believe in anything that isn't real and for which there is no proof.

Hey, Sarge. You can't outdo me when it come to the delusions of heaven and the afterlife. I was raised in Mormon country. They believe they will be Gods one day in eternity, and have their own spiritual children! And there is more. Hang in there and stay safe. GROG

@GROG Yeah and they get to rule over their own planet as a god. Mormons have very lofty afterlife expectations. Joseph Smith looked at the prevailing outlandish promises of Xianity while designing his religion and told Jesus "Hold my beer."

1

The supernatural is dark matter/energy. It is what we can not explain but we do not attribute it to a diety. It is as yet unexplained.
Heaven would have only dogs & fresh air.

Hello... How are you handling all the good luck and some of the not-so-good? I don't think dark matter/energy can be considered supernatural because scientists have "evidence" that it exists, but a detector for this has not yet been devised.
Gravitational waves, long predicted, were finally detected when an ingenious detector was created, not too long ago.
I have no idea about dogs in heaven, but I do wonder about the existence of fresh air being there. GROG

@GROG Hello. I use meds to handle my brain chemistry defect. I haven't murdered anyone yet so.......Best summer in 40 years. Free at last. Won the war by proxy with the motorheads across the way. Portfolio is sound. Enveloped in my existential isolation from most of humanity, I am in nirvava.....mostly.

@Mooolah Meds are good. Hang in there GROG

1

1.I can't hardly conceive of anything so boring as the xtian heaven. Give me "nothingness" instead. Forever is a terribly long time to be bored out of your gourd.

  1. Yes but on the side of wishful thinking on steroids.
Leelu Level 7 Aug 18, 2020

Dr. Peter Sapolsky has a video on utube where he points out the mental illness of religion as a form of schizophrenia. The video is a bit long, maybe try it from 16 minutes to 22 min or so.
"Wishful thinking on steroids!" You can say that again. i have a close relative who informed me that he will one day be a God! Wow, Mormons and their eternal progression? Cheers. GROG

@GROG Thx, I'll check it out.

1

Supernatural etymologically came from:
early 15c. "of or given by God," from Medieval Latin supernaturalis "above or beyond nature, divine," from Latin super "above" (see super-) + natura "nature" (see nature (n.)). Originally with more of a religious sense, "of or given by God, divine; heavenly;"

when you look at the etymology of the word. Then you have to deal with the physics of it all, because particles do not need to have mass. Yet there is no evidence of compassion or mercy in the universe, so one must conclude that both are simply something humans feel. Humans think anthropomorphically though, and want assign attributes that they themselves feel to their environment. It is something that is ingrained in humans, they try to assign order to something that they do not understand, often to relieve themselves of the fear that they have of the unknown. Hence we have a huge percentage of the population that embraces this, simply because they want to believe whatever they wish to be true, and, it comforts them, because they think they have an answer, based on intuition. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to break the barrier between those who follow this line of thinking, and those of us who do not.
How would I imagine heaven? I think it is nothing but a concoction of man, for the reasons listed above, and, the universe works off of energy, not feelings, it has both positive and negative charges, without which, nothing would exist, so trying to imagine a state of nothing but pure bliss is exactly nothing, nihilism, or whatever you choose to call it, I would just call it another useless invention of man.

Do I consider belief in the supernatural to be delusional? No, because physics shows that matter is not necessary for particles to exist, and, that leaves open a great mystery, but, nothing in the universe hints that it has anything to do with some superior intellect, compassion, or similar characteristic that man would like to try to assign to it. There is no evidence the universe is teleological, life on earth has been wiped our several times, and, the sun could supernova and all would be gone, humans could easily wipe themselves out . . . . there is no evidence that the universe is teleological, so while there may be laws of physics, and much that is unseen, immaterial, there is no evidence of the type of "god" or "
gods" humans have tried to invent.

1

I feel comfortable with mystery in life.

As a lifelong atheist, I don't believe in the supernatural: ghosts, invisible gods, fairies, astrology, numerology, etc.

Yes, I think mystery adds value to life--and so an omniscient god would be very bored!

The mystery in life is but a matter of luck. When the good out weighs the bad, we are lucky.
It is wonderful, near miraculous to even be here. Stay safe. GROG

1
  1. No, I think the idea of worshipping one being for eternity in the company of beings from the Stone Age to the future sounds like being stuck on the same channel all the time.

  2. I think that seeing how many things people have imagined and convinced others as true, it’s not something I blame people for falling for. The total ability to focus on the differences between their beliefs and others and assume those things are above being made up, that is delusional.

1
  1. I can’t imagine a place that doesn’t exist.

  2. Not necessarily. Many people believe what they’ve been taught and may be surrounded by people who believe the same. I think it’s lack of critical thinking more than delusion.

1
  1. The REAL Heaven or Hell is only what life throws your way OR what you make of life itself. Ergo, the choice is your own.
  2. There are things we cannot explain as yet hence we class them as being supernatural but religions are NOT supernatural beliefs, etc, they, imo, are simply sub-natural and sub-normal.

Okay.... I don't quite understand your distinction between supernatural and whatever sub-natural and sub-normal are. My point is there is the natural universe and for some there is a realm in addition to the natural universe. This other realm is created by the human imagination, and gods exist there. GROG

1
  1. The great thing about aphantasia, no mental imagery at all (or any other sense that resides only in the mind for that matter). So the short of it is, nothing.
  2. I think it depends on how you are using/defining that word. I don't think it is any more indicative of a mental disorder than people who can "see something in their mind's eye" are suffering from hallucinations. It does, however, fit a definition that relates to being based on or having faulty judgment.

#1. Good.
#2. Comment: Believing that the supernatural actually exists outside of this existence is what I am asking. We know/accept that dreams, imaginings and hallucinations occur in the mind. Believers point to miracles as evidence that the supernatural really exists. GROG

0
  1. Possibly an alien resurrection virtual heaven.
  2. The Supernatural defies cause and effect. Thinking, "I want" isn't a cause without effort and that effort isn't psychic beyond mustering the energy to get up and do something

1.? Where did you come up with this idea?
2. Right on. The supernatural is outside of the natural and only exists when we think about it. GROG

@GROG I came up with it from the Movie AI fused with the Matrix.
But not counting on anything of the sort.

0

I know at least one Greek God that's real...

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