I can't argue with those people...when all you do is listen to Trump and listen to Fox News...forget it.

@Closeted
Ask them about it.

@Closeted
I just asked them about the mail bomber and Michael Flynn. I'm curious. Do you have thoughts?

@OwlInASack The rise of the right is the result of the mess, not the cause of it.

@Closeted Yes, the extreme right has been very unhappy with uncontrolled immigration. The problem is mostly confined to Malmo, which might be described as a city-wide ghetto.

@OwlInASack Yes, but at the heart of all this is uncontrolled immigration. Darned if I understand why the left want to let in so many immigrants, apart from guessing it's about globalisation and cheap labour. The other side then goes too far to the right and never the twain shall meet. I guess it's down to the polarisation of ideologies.

@OwlInASack I have to come back with the claim that a look into the situation in Malmo does a lot to justify the wishes of the extreme right - the picture you paint of hard-working immigrants contributing to society seems pretty accurate in Ireland and Britain but not over there. I'm not happy either about the subjectivity of how people look. Lots of politicians look like criminals to me and they have a name for shady dealing so we can't start limiting this to extreme right politicians.

@dan325 Are you on the right topic, Dan? But anyway, no, of course not.

@OwlInASack The way i see it is the Social Democrats were in power from 2014. Before them was a centre-right party where the extreme right got a foot in the door but no more. It is only recently that the right-wingers got a mandate to influence, not dominate, Swedish policy. They are not having much success even now at getting their bills passed.
I'm not sure what mainland European countries have no problems with immigration. Have you seen the ghettos and homelessness in Paris? The general increase of rape? These issues could all be controlled with sensible immigration regulations.

@OwlInASack I saw the ghettos in the suburbs of Paris from the very comfortable distance of a coach on tour to Versailles about thirty years ago. Five years ago, I saw the mattresses on the streets and the tourist-robbers on the stops of the Sacre Coeur. They frightened my family and me but I understood they were reduced to it. The only conclusion I can come to is that controlled immigration and gradual integration into society is the answer. I think that flies in the face of the aims of globalisation for cheap labour.

@OwlInASack That was a great post. I enjoyed your passion for people. I tend to think of a lot of people coming from poor places to share the resources of better-governed lands. I think of the clash of cultures and the competition for decent-paying jobs. And I think if we allow this, what will ever encourage these people to resolve their own problems. Your point about global demographics would certainly remove all choice about it and call on people to be altruistic in a way that hasn't ever been asked (or demanded) before. On a lighter note, I'm sure the world is over when afternoon tea is no more.

@OwlInASack I certainly wanted to go home after a few years in America and did go home, not that I could be classed as a refugee, even though the money in America was far better than Ireland at the time. I think I should be able to access the Mash Report. I'll give it a shot anyway.

Yes, both sides seem to be happy in their respective echo-chambers. But these groups usually implode. The conversations get stultified and then they turn on each other.

@OwlInASack I'm sure the other side thinks that too. I didn't realise being objective was now termed middle ground fallacy. That's a good one!

@OwlInASack This middle-ground thing suggests that truth is the aggregate of different opinions. That's a very different thing to objectivity. It's not that long since the failings of the Democrats stuck in craws of many Americans. Now that's all forgotten. Do you really believe the Dems will bring you back to the Promised Land. It's an utterly corrupt country no matter who rules it.

@OwlInASack Well, I'm Irish so ditto. We have two opposing parties that are both slightly left of centre. The global economy calls the shots in Ireland. I understand the need for discernment but I suggest the choice is between the bad and the worse. Perhaps you might reply yes but say we're talking much, much worse. I'm not convinced because of the extremism of the polar views playing with facts. It's a grey area that people are claiming is black and white and I think they're wrong.

@dan325 The idea of equating the two has come from what I think is an incorrect understanding of the middle-ground fallacy in my case. It is not the same as looking at things objectively or making choices.

@OwlInASack I tend to think that, too, but then I wonder if I think it because I am on the left! But I support very strongly that we should not be looking for compromise as in middle-ground fallacy. If the choice is between supporting the poor and weak or giving further tax breaks to the rich and powerful it is a simple choice between right and wrong, moral and immoral. JC4PM!

Ooooo

Nice one. ?