Here, too.

nah socialism is hard baked into human DNA, from the time we first formed tribes until now, you're just to blind to see it.

@glennlab I agree with you that socialism is in human DNA on a small scale, that that's the family or tribe (extended family). Socialism works on that scale. It was only after Christianity and the "Love thy neighbor" "Money is the Root of All Evil" "It's easier for a camel to pass through eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" nonsense, that Socialism was ever tried on a national scale. Socialism sprung up in Christian nations, but it has been tried in nations of all religions, and it has been a disaster no matter the religion (or lack of religion) of the people who try it.

@BD66 Denmark, Sweeden, Norway, and Germany are all socialist democracies. The failure of socialism is normally greed. Socialism is an economic system, not a political system.

The "love your neighbor" dates back to at least 400 BCE (first written recording in Judeic texts), The mis quote of "the love of money is the root of all evil" dates back to ancient times and is seen in all the religions, and frankly the heaven one, no heaven, so don't really care about that one.

Socialism didn't "just" spring up, rather it evolved in ALL societies from the beginnin of our evolution dating back at least 3 million years.

It would take hours to get you up to date on the just the definitions so that we could have honest discussion. My major was accounting with a minor in economics.

@glennlab Well, let's start with the definition of Socialism:

so·cial·ism

noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany are capitalist countries. Here's how you can tell, If you want to purchase shares of publicly traded countries owned by private individuals in those countries, here is how you do it:

Germany: Purchase the ticker "EWG"
Denmark: Purchase the ticker "EDEN"
Norway: Purchase the ticker "ENOR"
Sweden: Purchase the ticker "EWD"

You have given 4 examples of capitalist countries who spend a good portion of their tax revenue on services for their citizens rather than on defense. This has been made possible because their defense has been provided by US taxpayers for the past 75 years.

You are 100% correct when you state "The failure of socialism is normally greed"

That's because humans are hard-wired to take care of their families and extended families. It's literally in the DNA. They want people with similar DNA to theirs to prosper.

When someone gets into a position of power in a Socialist state, many use the resources of that state to enrich themselves and their family members. That's why Socialism fails every single time.

@BD66 I don't accept definitions from wiki,
from Webster :: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Far more common are systems of social democracy, now often referred to as democratic socialism, in which extensive state regulation, with limited state ownership, has been employed by democratically elected governments (as in Sweden and Denmark) in the belief that it produces a fair distribution of income without impairing economic growth.

As I said it would take hours to just define our terms, since I'm sure that you incorrectly assume you are a capitalist

@glennlab The definition comes from Oxford Lauguages:

Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

Democratic Socialism is a perfect example of Orwellian doublespeak. If you look at the list of countries who have adopted Socialism, it's almost a perfect record of failure:

[en.wikipedia.org]

So Socialists have taken capitalist countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany, and called them "Democratic Socialist" countries, so they have some examples of countries who adopted Socialism where it did not lead to widespread misery.

@BD66 The dictionary definition is irrelevant, since no pure system of any type exists. Every system will have characteristics of several different philosophies. can you show of even one instance in history of a purely socalist or any pure economic system. They are all hybidized

@glennlab So I said "Socialism is the best analogy that you can make to Jurassic Park". You challenged that. I provided a definition of Socialism. You yourself stated "The failure of socialism is normally greed", but what you call "greed" is actually part of human nature where people will exert effort for people who share common DNA with them. They will not exert effort for complete strangers. So any time you put a system in place where: "the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.", they are not being regulated by the community, they are being regulated by people who have risen to the top of the political hierarchy, and those people (who are just as "your term greedy" ) as everyone else will abuse their power for people who share their DNA, at the expense of everyone else. Now you are stating "Definitions are irrelevant" and "Can you show one instance in history of a purely socialist system". Let's start with people who call themselves "Socialist", namely the "National Socialist German Workers’ Party" and the "Union of Soviet Socialists Republics" who started World War II, then we can go on to the list of governments who have killed the most people:

61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics"
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill - A different form of collectivism
20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State "National Socialist German Workers’ Party"

They're #1, #2, and #3.

You can go further down the list and find many other examples of Socialism and Collectivism that led to millions of deaths:

[hawaii.edu]

@BD66 If you for one minute believe that the nazis were socalist, you are sadly mistaken, have no understanding of history, economics or government no wonder you are a conservative. all you do is cut and paste without ever trying to understand what you are copying.

@glennlab

They call themselves Socialists "National Socialist German Workers’ Party" to gain power.

Then once they had power, they did whatever they wanted to do, they certainly weren't concerned about the German Workers.

Same story with Stalin. He didn't give a damn about Soviet workers. Same story with the Castros. They didn't give a damn about Cuban workers.

That's the endpoint when you go down the path of Socialism.

@glennlab Let's look at the definition of Socialism again:

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

and look at the last 4 clowns we have had in the White House:

GWB, Obama, Trump, Biden.

Do you want to give any one of them control over:

the means of production, distribution, and exchange

Do you think one of them us up to the task?

@BD66 The Nazis were fascist, never claimed to be anything else, Read "The rise and fall of the third Reicht" or any high school history book. I said before that there is not now nor has there ever been a true socialist nation. Pure socialism stops working once groups get over about 50. I also said that I do not agree with your definition, and youi have shown that you cannot identify any true socialist. I stand by my comparrison of republican picking trump being comparable to the people at Gentec continuing to open new dino parks.

@glennlab

"Pure socialism stops working once groups get over about 50"

We are 100% in agreement

Here is a list of Socialist States. Living in the USA with Trump dominating the Republican Party is far preferable to living in any one of these countries:

 Lao People's Democratic Republic 2-Dec-75

 People's Republic of China[nb 1] 1-Oct-49

 Republic of Cuba 1-Jan-59

 Socialist Republic of Vietnam[nb 2] 2-Sep-45

People's Democratic Republic of Algeria 3-Jul-62

 Portuguese Republic 25-Apr-76
 People's Republic of Bangladesh 11-Apr-71
 State of Eritrea 24-May-91
 Republic of Guinea-Bissau 24-Sep-73

 Co-operative Republic of Guyana 6-Oct-80
 Democratic People's Republic of Korea[nb 3] 19-Feb-92

 Republic of India 18-Dec-76
   Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal 20-Sep-15
 Republic of Nicaragua 18-Jul-79
 Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic[nb 5] 26-Feb-76

 Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka 7-Sep-78
 United Republic of Tanzania 26-Apr-64

@BD66 way to just google shit and not read it, there is not one true socialist or capitalist government in the world. Just like your horse paste bul;lshit, you don't understand it so you just regugitate information whether it is true or not.

Those countries by and large are communist, or totalitarian while they may show some characteristics of a socialist society, they are not a pure socialist society since all allow some entranenurship, allow private investment or have other free markets going on.

@BD66 If the US didn't create the aggression & the wars they pretend to save others from (aka piratical theft & bullying by USA) then the US would not need to play at world saviour.

@powder booster? I don't get a flu booster every year I get my vax for that year's expected strain & there is no guarantee but it's a lot surer than a cup of coffee.

@powder and cheaper.

@glennlab You have made the two statements:

"Pure socialism stops working once groups get over about 50"

"There is not now nor has there ever been a true socialist nation"

You are correct because Socialism applied on a national scale is such an absolute train wreck that in every socialist country a black market springs up where people engage in transactions outside the control of the government.

The list I supplied to you were countries with controlling parties that called themselves Socialist:

National Socialist German Workers’ Party

That literally put "Socialist" into the names of their country:

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka

Or had "Socialism" as a key part of their Constitution:

Lao People's Democratic Republic

People's Republic of China

Republic of Cuba

People's Democratic Republic of Algeria

Portuguese Republic

People's Republic of Bangladesh

State of Eritrea

Republic of Guinea-Bissau

Co-operative Republic of Guyana

Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Republic of India

Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal

Republic of Nicaragua

Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic

United Republic of Tanzania

Now I'll throw it back to you:

What in your view is the society that came nearest to implementing what you call "Pure Socialism" on a small scale (group less than 50) where Socialism worked best?

What country in your view came nearest to implementing what you call "Pure Socialism"