@Garban Medical consent for any medical procedure, or the removal of the need for consent to be sought by order of the state, is very much a left or right issue.
My body my choice, heard of that one? You saying access to abortion services is not a left or right issue or a public health policy now?

@Garban So we agree. You want me to make my own free choice without coercion.

Abortion is a private health issue agree. Covid is a public health issue in pandemic times true. Vaccination is not the only means available to combat Covid is true also. And your body being injected is also a private health issue.
Face the truth which is there is no vaccine for Covid ie there is no medicine available that will stop you catching or transmitting this coronavirus, which is the ONLY justification for mandating a "vaccine" in a pandemic.

@Garban It is not a vaccine though is it? If the vaccines for polio and smallpox were as effective as the so called covid vaccines, smallpox and polio would still be prevalent.
What does "contagious disease" mean to you? Because to me it means a disease that can be acquired and transmitted and yes, vaccines should stop that. Nothing is 100% and when it does not work, we call that a "breakthrough transmission/ infection". But it should be fairly rare, not what is expected. Can that be said for covid vaccines? No it can not. No herd immunity will be obtained.
Then lets get onto this "safe and effective" vaccine that needs 1st dose, second dose, 1st booster, 2nd booster, 3rd booster etc etc ad nauseum. Glad other vaccines are not like that. otherwise our kids would be pin cushions.

@Garban They were not forcing people to get it either because it sold itself as it worked. It was a life debilitating disease so of course people lined up.
Plus had at least 5 years of data from trials before released. The need for consent was never taken away as Nuremburg Trails were still fresh. Schools mandating vaccines is fairly new, only last 10 year or so in Australia anyway. Just another example of the slow erosion of rights since 9/11 really.
The law in Australia, overridden by emergency laws because "pandemic" declared by the WHO. When pandemic officially declared over by the WHO (Not by Biden), emergency laws cease.
[alrc.gov.au]

@Garban I managed to avoid it, but was forced to get a flu jab at start of pandemic which broke me (been broken before: interrogation) and made me vow to myself "never again". How was I forced? After pandemic declared first thing Australia did was mandate flu jabs to enter nursing homes ie used ever seeing my father again as emotional blackmail to ensure my compliance. I was so angry, I mean how the fuck can they mandate an influenza inoculation as a response to a pandemic being declared for a novel coronavirus?????? A blatant abuse of power as far as I was concerned. My Dr informed me she was unable to give exemptions, decreed from above. The Chief Medical Officer of Qld, Jenette Young, Proudly declared there would NO exemptions full stop. Remember, this was way before any covid vaccine was developed. I was stressing out about the old man, Mum was going spare.........so I got it and felt like the lowest piece of shit, betraying all my principals. I recognised my feelings as I had been there before, memories came flooding back. Broken again.
Never again.
So when covid vax's came and were also mandated, I refused. Again sort exemption from Doc, again refused and when she asked "Why?" I said "I'll wait 5 years thanks". She understood. I then agitated nursing home, long story short hit them with a risk assessment and they used to wheel him outside with me PPE'd up and I would walk him around. As I pointed out in risk assessment, far safer for both residents inside and my Father doing it that way than assuming I was vaxxed so all tickity boo (because even back then, knew it wasn't stopping transmission).
If you want to know how paranoid Australian policy makers were about exemptions, look at how we treated Novak Djokovic, who met exemption requirements but approved visa was then vetoed by the govt minister at the time, overruling our court of law. Novak was deemed too much of a threat to our society by the govt.
So was able to resist, but the arseholes got me with a flu jab (guess what I caught 3 weeks later? and it wasn't covid). Another non-vaccine

@Garban In a way yes. Would you described the threat of no more physical contact with a dying loved one as being forced? If not, fuck you!
When I got the flu jab, i informed them I was doing it under coercion and when asked to sign the waiver, signed it with the note "signed under duress" which would make it nul and void in a court of law. Medical "professionals" did it anyway, breaking their Hippocratic Oath to cause no harm. Because I can assure you, it caused me mental harm. The whole situation stunk, resulting me in getting my back up.
A whole different story if "safe and effective" vaccines were actually available, but they are not.

@Garban It is not an emotional solution, everything is in place but was steamrolled. Powers were abused and long standing norms discarded, laws broken and misinformation approved. Laws have been broken but will they be prosecuted? I mean really, not only approving but then mandating a new medicine before 5 years trials completed, unprecedented. Initial trail data secreted away from public/ peer scrutiny for 75 years, unprecedented.
I simplify it all to this, defending the status quo of freely given, informed consent without coercion is required for all medical treatment. I stand firm.
Funnily, this stance works for abortion too, which does not surprise me at all as abortion is a medical treatment.

@Garban To look for longer term effects in trials you need..........time. No tardis, so we should wait. Still emergency approved here in Australia because 5 years trials not completed. The covid vaxs have been around for what, 2 years? Are they saying the same thing they were at the start when vaxxes released? Or have they changed their tune? Any studies that contradict what the manufacturers state? Are we still learning?
These drugs are still in phase III trials. And you may thank me for putting my safety at risk because you need control group, like 25% of sampled population, for trials. How else do you know if they work?
Lets talk about these vaccines after 5 years of trials, 3 to go, then I will be able to give informed opinion. No-one can yet, as initial trial group data is being suppressed for 75 years.
In pandemics, life saving drugs should have no patents. Agree?

@puff
Stop arguing science you don't understand. You are spewing anal drivel everywhere.
If you want to argue science, vaccines in particular, go get a fucking Ph.D degree, then come back here and apologize to the group.
Maroon.

@AtheistInNC BA App Sc studied viruses regarding controlling feral populations. Vaccines provide immunity, why they talk about achieving herd immunities through vaccination programs.

@puff

Bachelor of Arts in Applied Science? Bachelor of ARTS? "Applied" science?
OMG ... srsly? Don't make me laugh.
Oops ... too late.

As I said before, if you want to argue SCIENCE, get a REAL Ph.D degree in virology SCIENCE, then come back here and apologize to the group. "Applied" science classes doesn't count. Those are the watered-down versions of science using Texas approved textbooks for people who can't pass algebra class.

Double Maroon.

@AtheistInNC Counter me. What do you class an effective vaccine? Because I was taught they provide meaningful immunity. Meaningful means it lasts longer than a couple of months, and immunity means it provides protection ie stops infection and transmission. Eg you want them above 90% effective (less than 10% breakthrough infections) and last at least 2 years. Like the polio or smallpox ones.
The piece of crap medicine many have injected themselves with multiple times does not cut it as a vaccine.
Applied Science means practical science, not tunnel visioned one trick boffon ponies science only "experts " with Ph.D's have according to your learned self. Same experts who transfer covid patients to nursing homes or quarantine in high rise enclosed hotels in major population centres for a human transmitted, airborne virus..
I will not be having buyer's remorse like many of my peers.

Bachelor of Applied Science
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"BASc" redirects here. Not to be confused with BASC.
The Bachelor of Applied Science, often abbreviated as B.AS., BAS, BSAS, BASc, B.A.Sc., or BAppSc, is an undergraduate degree. There are also Bachelor of Arts and Science and Bachelor of Administration Science undergraduate degrees, also abbreviated to BASc.[1]

My bad, should have written BApp Sc. So counter me. And tell me how a Ph.D in virology makes you an expert in social controls and risk management.
Science just means knowledge and belongs to all. It is the scientific method of discovery that is important which anyone can utilise, especially observation, which should tell you the public have been sold a turd with these covid medicines.
.PS OK smartarse, what exactly is a Ph.D Degree? Ph.D means Doctor of Philosophy which means you hold a Doctorate, not a Degree

@puff
I tell you what, puff - you go ask all the nurses who took care of the magats who died in their care, and who were BEGGING FOR THE VACCINE but were too far gone for it to help them, just how effective the vaccine is.

I'll wait for your answer.

@AtheistInNC Think I'd ask them do they agree with normal common law in my country, and I suspect yours, that any medical treatment first requires consent from the patient, informed freely given consent without coercion.
If they say no, I would then ask when is it OK to force medical treatment on people. Is it OK for the state to overrule someone's personal Doctor's advice regardless of individual needs.
I would then get around to the Hippocratic Oath, the Oath to do no harm. I would point out that forcing someone to do something, consume something against their wishes causes psychological harm even if no long term physical damage occurs. I would ask them if they would be happy giving someone an inoculation knowing that person was forced into doing it, was under duress and did not want it. I personally think mandates put medical professionals in an awful position when faced with this situation, perhaps causing them psychological harm.
Then I could go on of what they think about fast tracked science to release a new medicine on the market, then forcing people to take it, using their lively hood as coercion for compliance.
Let's make this real simple: Do you believe seeking consent is important for medical treatment? Yes or No? I say Yes. If you say no, we differ. If you say yes re abortion, no re vaccines then know I will think you are full of shite and strongly disagree.
People make bad choices in a life full of risk. I just hope they made their own informed choice.

@puff
Ya see, puff, the "informed choice" info came from people like you that obfuscated the truth and led them to a poor, UNINFORMED decision. They had people lying to them, and tell them things that might be true for a minute part of the population, but for most of the magats who died from covid, the vaccine most likely would have kept them alive if they had a shot before catching covid. All your rancid b3llsh1t about "what if" and "forcing medical treatment" is trash. Obviously, the magats that died made a choice, but it was a bad one that people like you endorsed. When they were begging to be vaccinated, because it helps almost EVERYONE, it was too late. Because of people like you.

You are just educated enough to be dangerous because you know big words, and you like to feel like you are smart. But you are not. You are the worst of the worst, and the millions of deaths due to covid are on your hands.

If people like you had been around before the polio virus vaccine, there would still be people in iron lungs.

You just can't fix stupid. Now go away ... I'm not going to deal with your utter contempt for reason.

@AtheistInNC Informed choice, if honest, would have been "We are trying to develop a vaccine but thus far we have developed a medicine which should keep you from getting severely ill and needing medical treatment. It is emergency approved which means we are unsure of any negative longer term effects. If you are immune system compromised, we highly recommend you take this medicine. The choice is yours, but don't think it's a vaccine like the one for polio because it is not. It will not stop the virus ie can still catch and transmit." There!
Instead, we got "Safe and effective and if you don't take it you want to kill Grandma. Treat those who don't take it as the scum they are, dirty, diseased scum who care not for societal needs. Make sure you jab your kids as they are transmitters even though they don't get sick'"

But Covid-19 vax's don't stop transmission do they? Pfitzer didn't even test if it stopped transmission before they marketed to governments around the world as a vaccine did they? So what was the point of jabbing kids when longer term effects were unknown and it didn't stop transmission? The answer is None, there was no point.
The truth is our society risked kids health with an experimental medicine so old farts can feel safe utilising coercion to the extreme. The selfish generation, that is what we will be known as.