Another article on fakes and forgeries. The more scientific methods we come up with, the more we can identity these fakes from history (and know what is true!). It is disturbing what people try to get away with. [livescience.com]
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Add Shroud of Turin to that list. Sandia Man in Southwest US, and most religious relics.
t1nick
Level 8
Feb 9, 2020
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Was the Shroud a fake? Or just the claims about it? There is a big difference, IMO
Last research report I remember it was a fake. Carbon-14 dating and dyes make it too young to be real.
@t1nick Thanks. I did a paper on it when I was young (and included other religious findings)...which set me on the definite path to being an atheist.
Perhaps that is a benefit of proving religious artifacts as fakes...more people will question their faith.
Jnei:
@EyesThatSmile I agree with your point about the shroud and the claims made about it. Personally, I suspect it's a medieval artwork which was probably never originally intended to deceive but that the church, realising it's quite a remarkable one, were more than happy to let the myths grow up about it - but were careful never to declare it authentically the shroud of Christ nor admit otherwise, just in case anyone proved it to be too modern (I believe the Vatican is still resolutely on the fence regarding this matter).
@Jnei
About a half a decade ago, a scientific team in a University in Germany or Poland carbon dated it. The date came back way too recent for it to be considered contemporaneous with the Christ figure. Also, if I remember correctly, chemical spectroscopy evidence showed the dies were wrong for the time and the area. If I remember correctly.
Jnei:
@t1nick Indeed. Furthermore, three teams (from Oxford, Arizona and Zurich) which were permitted to examine a sample of the fabric in 1988 used radiocarbon dating and independently dated it to between 1260 and 1390 CE - which, interestingly, roughly corresponds to the first records of the shroud in church documents. (An article mentioning those tests: [nationalgeographic.com]
@t1nick I also remember reading studies of this research. Originally, the church forbade the carbon dating as it would mean a sample had to be taken from the shroud. The technology had progressed to the point where a tiny piece needed to be taken and the church had to acquiesce and let the study go forth. It was deemed a fake.
Give me a break, why do we have to go to such extremes to, once again, prove magic is not real.
Jnei:
There are two more interesting articles on how carbon monoxide contamination or a medieval repair using medieval fabric following a fire that damaged the shroud in 1532 (both of which have been suggested by believers in the shroud's authenticity) are unlikely to have caused inaccurate radiocarbon dating here: [c14.arch.ox.ac.uk] and here: [llanoestacado.org]
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