Bernie is to far "right"?..wow

Charlene - For some Democrats that answer is Yes. For moderate Democrats and Republicans, the answer is absolutely. The problem with Biden is that he wants to move backwards to the Obama era.

Sure but Joe Biden won't get Congress to accomplish any of those things either. Biden himself doesn't even support most of those progressive reforms we so badly need and he will do what he does best, lead like a borderline republican. That's if he can win, which is extremely unlikely. He is the second iteration of Clinton except his mind is clearly not so sharp anymore and Trump is now the incumbent who defeated the dems on impeachment so he is more popular now than ever. Biden vs Trump will be a disastrous defeat.

At least Bernie has a good chance of winning and removing that regressive president currently leading our country downhill fast.

@RoboGraham
"Trump is now the incumbent who defeated the dems on impeachment "
Trump didn't defeat the democrats regarding impeachment... He was, in fact, impeached... The republicans disregarded their obligations in conducting a fair impartial hearing to convict...

@Cutiebeauty

Regardless, he won that battle.

He was impeached but it's nothing but symbolism. He remains in office and his favorability rating increased because of it.

Sure he should have been removed and the republicans in the Senate are despicable for choosing party over country but that is what happened and now people see it as a win for Trump. He is able to brag that the corrupt democrats attempted a coup against him but he beat them.

The typical voter is not going to look into the nuances as we do. They see it as a victory for Trump and that's why his approval numbers are higher now than ever before.

Thanks to the ill advised impeachment gamble, Trump is a strong incumbent president and he will be very difficult to defeat. Unless the economy crashes between now and November, Trump is in great shape for reelection.

@RoboGraham I agree with you that the whole impeachment attempt ended up being a waste of time by the Dems and will now only help Trump in the general. You are one of the few lefties who seems to agree wtih me about that.

@TomMcGiverin

I don't even believe that it was a waste of time or a failure of it's intended purpose which was to act as a distraction. It was a way for Pelosi and the establishment democrats to appear as though they were vigorously opposing Trump while actually cooperating with him to screw the people over further.

As impeachment was happening, House dems gave Trump his space force, increased his military budget by billions more than the already gigantic bloated number it was before, extended the patriot act to allow his administration broad spying powers on the American people, and signed off on his new NAFTA. It's insane that they would impeach him because of accusations that he abused his powers and simultaneously increase his power by giving him a new branch of military.

They're intention is not to resist him, they are pretty much the same as him. It was abundantly clear to any idiot paying attention that there was no way in hell impeachment was going to get through the Senate. It was nothing more than political theater to distract us as we were getting bent over by the democrats that we voted into office in 18.

@RoboGraham Now that you've explained it, I totally agree. I also think that all the Russiagate stuff from the Dems and corporate media during the last couple years served two purposes as well. It allowed them to fill air time during the Bernie blackout and it also served as a distraction on how the Dems were not even attempting to serve the interests of the masses while blaming their loss in 2016 on anyone but Hillary and the party's contempt for working class Americans. The point of my earlier post is that it was a waste of time as far as actually trying to remove him from office or hurt his re-election chances.

@TomMcGiverin

Totally. The Russia stuff was all about scapegoating and avoiding the need to ask why they lost and make changes to improve. The shitting thing is that I believed it at first. Thank goodness for independent media on the interwebs.

@RoboGraham I often wonder tho if the whole Bernie Bros thing might really be a false flag run against Bernie by online trolls who are really Russian or Repub operatives. These days, you can't be too paranoid. I have heard Bernie suggest that the Bernie Bros thing might be a fake thing perpetrated by people who aren't his supporters that is done to hurt him. Whether that is or isn't the case, there really isn't a good way to defend himself on that without airtight proof of a plot, because the feminists will never believe him if he denies it without proof.

@RoboGraham It's possible that the economy may crash before the election, at least the stock market, because of the coronavirus, and if it does, Trump might lose because of that and his mismanagement of it. Unlike Hurricane Katrina, which W totally blew, this crisis will affect most working class white people, including many who voted for Trump.

@TomMcGiverin

Like a false flag attack, sure, could be.

I think it's mainly a creation of the corporate media. They have very little to attack the candidate himself with so they criticize him via going after his supporters. If you have any group numbering in the millions, there are going to be some bad apples who do bad stuff. They latch on to a few cases and paint a narrative that all of us are like that. It's similar to how they make people afraid of immigrants. They sensationalize all examples of immigrates committing crimes and put forward this idea that they are dangerous.

It's a good sign really. It means they have nothing else to go on. And it is very easy to counter that stupid argument. Just say- there are thousands dying each year from lack of healthcare, half a million homeless, endless wars, gigantic deficit, a generation drowning in student debt, a looming climate crisis, mass incarceration, exploding wealth inequality, suicide epidemic, opioid epidemic, and all the media is focusing on are mean tweets and aggressive comments. How absurd.

@RoboGraham Your point about the Bernie Bros being a tiny problem compared to our widespread society problems is right on, and I have seen that counter-argument being used by both Bernie and his surrogates in the corporate media, but I wonder how effective it is, when most Americans do not get nuance or complexity in discussions. I admit that all they have to attack Bernie on is his socialist label, his remarks on Cuba and other governments that aren't capitalists, and the Bernie Bros. Warren was really a snake in her interview with Rachel Maddow smearing Bernie as much as she could on the Bernie Bros issue.

@TomMcGiverin

Her behavior of late has confirmed a suspicion of her that I've had for a little while now. That she is a self serving fauxgressive who puts her own success and aggrandizement way ahead of the cause and the goal of actually creating positive progressive reforms to help people. I highly doubt she will give her support to Bernie and I suspect that her big donors who kept her campaign afloat through super tuesday did so only split the progressive vote and spoil for Bernie. Warren's willingness to accept their money and stay in the race shows me that she is either complicit with that strategy or incredibly naive.

I agree. Too bad the whole party and the corporate media are all teaming up to make sure he doesn't beat Biden.

That's an extremely low bar and it really doesn't matter if he is better than Trump because he hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell at beating Trump.

@RoboGraham when dealing with trump, a low bar is sufficient enough... As for Biden, I prefer Sanders actually...

@Cutiebeauty

Glad to hear it. Sanders is a far better candidate and actual has a chance at winning.

That is admirable but I think your work will be in vain. Biden will suppress turnout.

How do you convince people to vote for a guy who stood with segregationists, wrote the crime bill which caused mass incarceration, voted for the Iraq disaster, was forced to drop out in shame in 88 due to plagiarism and lying his ass off, does not support Med4All, is funded by billionaires, and is clearly suffering from cognitive decline?

@RoboGraham I have been on the losing side of many elections, that doesn't stop me from trying to get better than what we have. While everything you say may be true, Biden is a thousand times better than what we have now. We have just less than 1/3 of the delegates pledged right now, between now and July I will do what I can to get my candidate elected. After July 16, whoever is the party's nominee is is who i will actively support. I can name 10 times as many reasons that DJT would be a lousy president, starting with the last 3 years of examples.

@glennlab

There is nothing I'd like to see more than the removal of Trump. I commend you on your efforts and your ability to fight no matter what the circumstances are.

To me, I know that it isn't possible for Joe to beat Donald so I'm not willing to betray my integrity and morality by voting for such a terrible candidate knowing full well that it won't result in Trump's defeat.

This is why it is critical that Sanders win the nomination.

@RoboGraham I refuse to allow the pursuit of the perfect defeat the pursuit of the better. Yours is a defeatist attitude resulting in a circular firing squad.

@glennlab

I don't think any of us are pursuing a perfect defeat but if the democrats nominate Biden, they'll get close.

I'd say it's more of a rational strategy. My vote is more valuable if given to a third party than it is surrendered to a neoliberal establishment democrat who cannot get the job done and remove Trump.

@RoboGraham So long as there are only a few like you, we’ll be okay.

@yvilletom

There are large numbers of people in my generation who will not vote for Joe Biden. And as far as Gen Z is concerned, if you don't support the green new deal, forget about it, they won't bother.