This should go on the conservative group but as I am blocked from that group it is here
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phxbillcee
Level 10
Nov 8, 2021
0
@phxbillcee very good.
I was blocked by the "Conservative Agnostics" within weeks of joining Agnostic.com - I don't get their strategy. To be a Conservative in America you have to be #religulous...it's one of the "pillars" of the foundation of American Conservatism....hence I wonder if any of the Conservatives allegedly here are - indeed - #religulous and just keeping it quiet.
And I'm not only stealing that meme - I'm sharing similar ones with you, @Moravian!
Robecology
Level 9
Nov 8, 2021
4
BD66:
There are many types of conservatism. Two of the most prominent are:
Social Conservatives: People worried about pre-marital sex, abortion, song lyrics, pornography, etc.
Fiscal (or Economic) Conservatives: People who are concerned that the USA is rapidly going bankrupt.
You can be a Social Conservative without being a Fiscal Conservative, and you can be a Fiscal Conservative without being a Social Conservative.
Most Conservative Atheists on Agnostic.com are Fiscal Conservatives. Very few of them are Social Conservatives.
You could also explore the whole gun rights vs. gun regulation issue, and you would get a large variety of responses from the people who frequent Conservative Atheists on Agnostic.com.
@BD66 I would consider myself fiscal conservative. Thanks for that explanation. So much simpler than I have tried to explain it.
@BD66I concur with@EyesThatSmile;
Yet - I would argue that the logic of Fiscal conservatives is groundless.
What does that mean to "go bankrupt"...that our debts are "forgiven"? Who are we indebted to?
Most of us know that the "Silver Certificate" (The old term for the dollar) has been gone for decades.
Most of us know that our "national debt'" is something almost imaginary - that for many years now a group of people (all White men) on the FOMC (Federal Open Market committee) determine loan and. other "rates"....so to me it almost seems that the title "Fiscal Conservative" is a polite term for pro-religion anti prorgressive/liberal.
Here's a great discussion of the "National Debt"....please peruse and comment?
and please read
Didn't the Socialists pretty much drive the UK into the ground in 1978 and 1979?
I thought you British learned your lesson back in the 1970's?
BD66
Level 8
Nov 8, 2021
0
Conservative govts. can have labour relation problems too. I well Remeber Ted Heath and his 3 day weeks.
We Brits who have lived through these events which are now part of our history, and understand better that those living in other jurisdictions how it actually is to live here under different regimes don’t need to take political lessons or read Wikipedia pages to understand its reality. Governments of all political complexions have had crises to deal with, Maggie Thatcher’s Tories were deeply unpopular but The Falklands War saved her on a wave of patriotism against Argentina, then we had the corrosive Miner’s Strike which has scarred relationships and communities the north of England for generations, and the Poll Tax riots…eventually she became so unpopular her own cabinet knifed her in the back. Tony Blair’s Labour (Socialist) government with its landslide victory was greeted with jubilation in the U.K. after 18 long Tory years in 1997. Let’s not be selective in our dissecting of history, and above all let’s not confuse British Socialism with Communism…they are very different animals indeed, but alas Americans on the Right deliberately and wilfully continue to conflate the two different political realities.
@Marionville Very true but as Scotland no longer returns any Labour MPs we are probably stuck with this sleaze ridden bunch for years to come.
@Moravian Not necessarily true as the SNP could work in coalition with Labour if it meant defeating the Tories if both were sensible about doing it. However, first Labour have to win back the swathe of seats lost to the Tories at the last General election…looks like the Tories may actually manage to lose these seats without any help from Labour anyway!
@Marionville If only.It will be interesting to see how the North Shropshire by election goes. Patterson had such a huge majority that even tactical voting by Labour and Lib Dems would have no effect.
Still we live in hope. I remember the late Nicky Fairbairn, Tory MP for Perth and Kinross saying that a roll of linoleum would win the Tory vote there. He was beaten by the SNP in the next election and it has been an SNP seat ever since
so·cial·ism
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Giving the government control over the means of production, distribution, and exchange does nothing to insure clean water, green forests, parks, safe medicine, safe food, high performance and safe cars, quality schools, quality roads, or quality police and fire services.
It usually means quite the opposite.
BD66
Level 8
Nov 8, 2021
0
Firstly I don't see what the overuse of water from the Aral sea for crop irrigation has to do with the supply of clean drinking water.
[bbc.co.uk]
Letting private companies have control has worked well in England !!
I have visited a few state run national parks in the USA and they are a credit to the country so yes it does ensure clean water and unspoiled green forests
Let them be run privately and they would probably be something like Disney world.
BD66:
@Moravian The United States probably has the best national parks in the world. The United States is a Capitalist country. The United States is not a Socialist country. They United States has carved out a very tiny portion of the economy (administration of national parks), and put that under government control, but the reason for the success is that the United States hires out the majority of the work to be done by private contractors. The people actually doing the work to make the US national parks so attractive and well-run are private companies.
Here are the private companies that help Yellowstone National Park run so efficiently:
AC Enterprises, LLC
c/o: AC Enterprises, LLC
Address: P.O. Box 633, Gardiner, MT 59030
Phone: 406-559-0969
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersAccess Wild
c/o: Llama Adventures Unlimited, LLC
Address: 2025 Oro Fino Gulch, Helena, MT 59601
Phone: 406-431-4326
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsAdventures Outfitting LLC
c/o: Adventures Outfitting, LLC
Address: P.O. Box 360, Ennis, MT 59729
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsBack Country Adventures, Inc.
c/o: Back Country Adventures, Inc.
Address: 224 Electric Street, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-646-9317
Services: Winter Sports Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersBear Aware
c/o: Bear Aware, LLC
Address: 604 Montana Street, Belgrade, MT 59714
Phone: 406-224-5367
Services: Retail OperationsBear Paw Outfitters, LLC
c/o: Bear Paw Outfitters, LLC
Address: 136 Deep Creek Road, Livingston, MT 59047
Phone: 406-222-6642
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsBlack Mountain Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Black Mountain Outfitters, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 117, Emigrant, MT 59027
Phone: 406-222-7455
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsBlack Otter Guide Service
c/o: Black Otter, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 68, Pray, MT 59065
Phone: 406-333-4365
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsCache Creek Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Cache Creek Outfitters, Inc.
Address: 2225 Black Otter Road #44, Big Sky, MT 59716
Phone: 406-995-3888
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsCastle Creek Outfitters & Guide Service
c/o: John D. Graham
Address: P.O. Box 1881, Red Lodge, MT 59068
Phone: 406-838-2301
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsCovered Wagon Ranch
c/o: TNT Ranch, LLC
Address: 34035 Gallatin Road, Gallatin Gateway, MT 59730
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsDNC Parks and Resorts at Yellowstone, LLC
c/o: DNC Parks and Resorts at Yellowstone, LLC
Address: 250 Delaware Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14202
Phone: 716-858-5000
Services: Food Service Operations; Retail OperationsDry Ridge Outfitters, LLC
c/o: Dry Ridge Outfitters, LLC
Address: P.O. Box 863, Driggs, ID 83422
Phone: 208-354-2284
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersElkhorn Ranch
c/o: ER Ranch Corporation
Address: 33133 Gallatin Rd., Gallatin Gateway, MT 59730
Phone: 406-995-4291
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsGary Fales Outfitting, Inc.
c/o: Gary Fales Outfitting, Inc.
Address: 2768 Northfork Rt., Cody, WY 82414
Phone: 307-587-3747
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersHeart 6 Ranch LLC
c/o: Heart 6 Ranch, LLC
Address: 16985 Buffalo Valley Road, Moran, WY 83013
Phone: 307-543-2477
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsHell's A Roarin' Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Hell's A Roarin' Outfitters, Inc.
Address: Box 399, Gardiner, MT 59030
Phone: 406-848-2200
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersHidden Creek Outfitters, LLC
c/o: Hidden Creek Outfitters, LLC
Address: 575 Road 11, Powell, WY 82435
Phone: 307-899-1355
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsHorseTrack Outfitters, LLC
c/o: HorseTrack Outfitters, LLC
Address: P.O. Box135, Pray, MT 59065
Phone: 406-946-1488
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsJake's Horses, Inc.
c/o: Jake's Horses, Inc.
Address: 5645 Ramshorn, Gallatin Gateway, WY 59730
Phone: 406-995-4630
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersKenneth Sinay Company
c/o: Kenneth Sinay Company
Address: P.O. Box 42, Bozeman, MT 59771
Phone: 406-586-1155
Services: Guide Services and OutfittersMEDCOR, Inc.
c/o: MEDCOR Inc.
Address: 4805 West Prime Parkway, McHenry, IL 60050
Services: Medical ClinicsMedicine Lake Outfitters
c/o: Thomas M. Heintz
Address: 3246 Linney Road, Bozeman, MT 59182
Phone: 406-388-4938
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsMountain Sky Guest Ranch, LLC
c/o: Mountain Sky Guest Ranch, LLC
Address: P.O. Box 1110, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-646-9332
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersNine Quarter Circle Ranch, Inc.
c/o: Nine Quarter Circle Ranch, Inc.
Address: 5000 Taylor Fork Rd., Gallatin Gateway, MT 59730
Phone: 406-995-4276
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsRand Creek Outfitters
c/o: Rand Creek Outfitters
Address: P.O. Box 70, Wapiti, WY 82450
Phone: 307-587-3200
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsRockin’ HK Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Rockin’ HK Outfitters, Inc.
Address: 17441 Wilson Creek Road, Big Sky, MT 59716
Phone: 406-333-4505
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsScenic Safaris
c/o: Jackson Hole Adventure Center LLC
Address: 7501 East McCormick Parkway, Scottsdale, AZ 85258
Phone: 480-998-7199
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Winter Sports OperationsSee Yellowstone Alpen Guides
c/o: Three Bear Rentals, LLC
Address: 217 Yellowstone Avenue, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-646-7353
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Winter Sports OperationsSee Yellowstone Alpen Guides
c/o: Three Bear Rentals, LLC
Address: 217 Yellowstone Avenue, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-646-7353
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Winter Sports OperationsSheep Mesa Outfitters
c/o: Ronald D. Good
Address: P.O. Box 1734, Cody, WY 82414
Phone: 307-587-4305
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersSkyline Guest Ranch & Guide Service, Inc.
c/o: Skyline Guest Ranch & Guide Service, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 1074, Cooke City, MT 59020
Phone: 406-838-2380
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsSlough Creek Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Scott & Sandy Sallee
Address: 3896 Old Yellowstone Trail, North, Livingston, MT 59047
Phone: (406) 222-7455
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersSunrise Pack Station, LLC
c/o: Sunrise Pack Station, LLC
Address: 202 Custer Avenue, Belgrade, MT 59714
Phone: 406-388-2236
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersTeton Science Schools, Inc.
c/o: Teton Science Schools, Inc.
Address: 700 Coyote Canyon Road, Jackson, WY 83001
Phone: 307-733-1313
Services: Winter Sports Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersThe Lone Mountain Ranch Incorporated
c/o: The Lone Mountain Ranch Incorporated
Address: 750 Lone Mountain Rand Road, Big Sky, MT 59716
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsTriangle X Ranch
c/o: Triangle X Ranch LLP
Address: 2 Triangle X Ranch Road, Moose, WY 83012
Phone: 307-733-5500
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersWilderness Pack Trips, Inc.
c/o: R.K. Miller's Wilderness Pack Trips, Inc.
Address: 209 South K. St, Livingston, MT 59047
Phone: 406-848-9953
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsWilderness Trails, Inc.
c/o: Wilderness Trails, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 3700, Jackson, WY 83001
Phone: 307-733-5171
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsWildland Llamas, LLC
c/o: Wildland Llamas, LLC
Address: 4025 E. Huntington Dr., Suite 150, Flagstaff, AZ 86004
Phone: 800-715-4453
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsWyoming Wilderness Outfitters
c/o: Wyoming Backcountry Adventures, Inc.
Address: 1134 Road 14, Powell, WY 82435
Phone: 307-754-4320
Services: Guide Services and Outfitters; Horse and Mule OperationsXanterra Parks & Resorts, Inc.
c/o: Xanterra Parks & Resorts, Inc.
Address: 6312 South Fiddlers Green Circle, , Suite 600 North, Greenwood Village, CO 80111
Phone: 303-600-3400
Services: Campgrounds; Food Service Operations; LodgingYellowstone Expeditions
c/o: Yellowstone Expeditions
Address: P.O. Box 865, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-646-9333
Services: Winter Sports Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersYellowstone Mountain Guides, Inc.
c/o: Yellowstone Mountain Guides, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 70, West Yellowstone, MT 59758
Phone: 406-388-0148
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersYellowstone Park Service Stations, Inc.
c/o: Yellowstone Park Service Stations, Inc.
Address: P.O. Box 11, Gardiner, MT 59030
Phone: 406-848-7333
Services: Auto, Gas, and Service Stations; Retail OperationsYellowstone Vacations
c/o: DNC Parks & Resorts Yellowstone Adventures, Inc.
Address: 8358 Huffine Lane, Suite 2, Bozeman, MT 59718
Phone: 406-646-9564
Services: Winter Sports Operations; Guide Services and OutfittersYellowstone Wilderness Outfitters, Inc.
c/o: Yellowstone Wilderness Outfitters, Inc.
Address: 4148 Brush Creek Road, Noel, MO 64854
Services: Horse and Mule Operations; Guide Services and Outfitters
Of course it is a capitalist country. It is also one of the wealthiest and one of the most religious.
Maybe the state mantra should be changed from "in god we trust" to "greed is good"
BD66:
@Moravian There's nothing wrong with wealth. I'd certainly like to get rid of the religion. If you think back to your British experiment with socialism. You managed to drive the highest-earning performers in history out of your country with your outrageously high tax rates:
As far as greed goes. Thomas Sowell addressed the hypocrisy very well:
@BD66 You guys kid yourself that you have a low tax economy . It is probably less than in the UK but not that much. Add on state taxes, sky high property taxes if you want to live in a good area and health insurance and there will be very little difference.
Tax on gasoline is less but then you have to drive everywhere as there is very little public transport. Anyone over 60 here gets free nationwide bus and coach travel and reduced rail travel.
MY partner's son lives in Fairfield Con. His property tax is over $7000 a year, My brother has a similar sized and valued house in an upmarket part of Edinburgh. His council tax is less than half of that.
His wife's retired parents pay around $1000 a month in health insurance. The National insurance rate (pays for the NHS) here is 12.5 % of taxable income. Retired people do not pay it.
After all how do you think the mighty industrial war machine ( 39% of world military costs) is paid for.
BD66:
@Moravian I agree 100%. Taxes in the USA are too high. The US government(s) try to do too much. We have already gone too far down the path of socialism, and we should reverse course. I'm 100% in agreement on the mighty industrial war machine. Out of control government spending is a much more dire threat to the USA than any foreign military.
@BD66 That made me smile. The USA is a capitalist country and now it is becoming a socialist one.
The closest the USA came to socialism was Roosevelt's new deal after WW1. The impetus from the industrialisation during and after WW2 set the USA in it's course as "leader of the free world" and the paranoia of the cold war. Or do you mean by the slide towards socialism the attempt by Biden to invest and repair the economy after the damaging pandemic.
BD66:
@Moravian It's quite insane. The USA was "saving" the world from various forms for socialism and collectivism from 1945 through 1989. We succeeded, the rest of the world is turning away from collectivist policies that were spectacular failures throughout the 20th century.
Now we have a significant portion of the US voter population that believes these disastrous collectivist ideas could actually work.
I have a bunch of friends who grew up in the Soviet Union. They did anything they could to get out of that collectivist hellhole. Now after 30 years in the USA enjoying our prosperous capitalist lifestyle, they see a bunch of lunatics who want to impose collectivism on the USA.
They just shake their heads in stunned disbelief.
*When Democrats say "Invest" they mean "deficit spend"
We're going to cross $29,000,000,000,000 in national debt any day now, so we may likely get some form of collectivism coupled with a sovereign debt default. It's going to be ugly.
You do know the difference between socialism and total state control ?
@Moravian No he doesn’t…he’s actually doing what all right-leaning Americans do and conflating communism with socialism. They are utterly, and wilfully, ignorant of wanting to understand the difference between the two completely different political philosophies.
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