My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Summer72 Thank you. You are part of a wise, but small minority of women who are divorced and open-minded. Most of them on Match do not seem to be looking at the total person when they are "shopping" on the dating site. They are simply using a checklist as they view the profiles, and they also seem to be choosing only the familiar, namely only seeking men who have only the same lifestyle and background traits as them, on things like having kids, being divorced, being a social drinker, being religious, etc., instead of being open to men with a difference or two from them in those areas. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting most things in common or having dealbreakers, we all have them and want those things in a partner. But when someone is really rigid and superficial in their checklist, they miss out on some good people who have the right heart, personality, and ability to compromise, which is necessary in all good relationships, no matter how much alike you both are. Besides, wouldn't it be boring to have a partner who was an opposite gender clone of you?

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin Thanks for the validation and support Carin, but that really is how self-limiting and self-sabotaging most women on Match are, in my experience. They indicate in their profile's checklist of traits near the end of the profile that they are only looking for divorced men. Which, when you think about it, is really stupid to only pick from men who had failed relationships instead of being open to widowed men who might be great partners and have only had one LTR, like me, that was successful and happy. I guess those narrow-minded women must think that they will be able to find the gems and prize men among all the divorced men on Match instead of ending up dating mostly men who were divorced for good reasons, mainly their faults as a partner. I appreciate your comment that these narrow-minded, superficial women, as you say, are no loss for me, but when you have had as little success I have had in 20 months on Match in meeting anyone to date, that feels more like a rationalization than comforting.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin And that is why I get so little interest on Match. I am widowed without kids, a very small group out of those on Match my age. The vast majority of women, like you, won't date a man without kids. Add to that, the majority of divorced women on Match will not date a man who is not also divorced, like them, maybe because they cynically or ignorantly assume that all widowed men are either not done grieving or still emotionally married to their dead wife. Lastly, only about 25% of the women my age on Match in my area are widowed. Add all of those common preference choices together with the women on Match, and it leaves me with only a very small dating pool of women that are willing to accept someone like me with my background. Then, after you factor in the usual dealbreakers over other lifestyle and cultural traits, I am left with a sliver of the women on Match that are compatible and open to giving me a chance.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

Summer72 comments on May 5, 2019:

Many men also have unrealistic fantasies. A man wants much of the opposite of what your ex wants. Expectations from men.... I should always want sex, never need much, be OCD about cleaning, care taker, have a great sports bod and be a mommy figure. But these men wouldn't get a minute of my time. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin I sure see a lot of that on Match in the women's profiles, the trend of going with the familiar and similar over being open to someone with differences in background or lifestyle that might be positive for a change with a new relationship. As in, almost all the women with kids, and even most of the ones who don't have kids, indicate they only want men with kids, adult or younger. Same with drinking, social and moderate drinkers will almost always indicate that they will only date fellow drinkers, social or moderate. But what's really interesting, as far as sticking with the familiar, is that about 70% of the divorced women will not date a widowed man, even the ones in my age group, probably because they want a man who has been thru a divorce over someone who had a successful marriage ending in death. I guess the choice there might often be explained by wanting someone who has shared the unique pain of a divorce, the familiar, over someone who might be more capable and ready for a successful relationship. Understanding and commiseration over improving their odds of success with a more relationship competent, less flawed, and supportive man. But I don't doubt there are reasons for people sticking with the familiar in what types of people they want to date, such as divorced women feeling they don't understand widowed men as well as divorced men or assuming that the man's family, esp. kids, won't accept her. Assumptions that the man who is a non-drinker won't be accepting of her drinking or fit in with that same trait shared by her friends and family. Assumptions that a man without kids, even when her kids are all adults, won't be accepting or interested enough in her kids and grandkids. In the case of women without kids, my guess is that the reason the vast majority of them also only want a man with kids is so they can lean on them later after the man dies and she is left old and widowed then they will be assumed to comfort and look after her.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

birdingnut comments on May 6, 2019:

Sounds about right. Studies show that women prefer romance, cuddling, walks, mutual massages, foot rubs, trips to museums, etc. and could skip sex altogether without a qualm. They mostly put up with sex to keep a male companion around. Men seem to want sex on demand, and an efficient maid/cook, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@Carin Notice tho that it said the online-based relationships did only "slightly better" than the offline based relationships......

Who here has dealt with depression from a firsthand experience?

ToolGuy comments on May 6, 2019:

I have as a counsellor and I had a mother who was periodically depressed. My mother dealt with it by refocusing her attention on beauty and friends through her church.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

Depression runs thru my family too. One of my grandmother's committed suicide.

Who here has dealt with depression from a firsthand experience?

Sticks48 comments on May 6, 2019:

Me

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

I'm sorry and genuinely surprised to hear that Sticks, but you are still the man to me....you and Deiter. I admire the hell out of both of you.

That sinking feeling when you find this in your mail box..

TomMcGiverin comments on May 7, 2019:

I'm guessing this means you got audited, owe penalties or something else negative. Care to share with us the message from the IRS?

TomMcGiverin replies on May 7, 2019:

@ownworstenemy I can relate. Before my late wife's dementia, she handled all of her own finances as well as our shared bills. When I had to suddenly take over everything financial for me and her, I was so stressed out and overwhelmed, besides being younger than her and not old enough to yet know anything about or have to deal with retirement accounts and taxes, including annual RMDs, that the first year I filed our taxes, I forgot to include her RMD income, so the IRS penalized us for that. I just payed it and didn't bother contacting them to explain the reason for the oversight, as our accountant said it wouldn't make any diff anyway on how much the penalty was or if they would waive it. The penalty amounted to what we would have payed anyway if we had listed the income on the return.

Should we respect other people's beliefs?

icolan comments on May 6, 2019:

Bigotry, hatred, and ignorance have no place in civilized society.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@BeerAndWine I get that. My point is that over time standards change as to what civilized society defines as bigotry, etc.

I live in a very Christian and republican area.

LiterateHiker comments on May 6, 2019:

I live in Christian, Republican-dominated Eastern Washington. As a Democrat, environmentalist, feminist and hiker, I joined: 1. Women's hiking group 2. Library book club 3. Democrats of North Central Washington 4. Citizens for Peace 5. Anytime Fitness

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

I'm in the same number of groups. Haven't met anyone from them to date in two years and probably never will. Purely for shared interest and socializing.

Should we respect other people's beliefs?

icolan comments on May 6, 2019:

Bigotry, hatred, and ignorance have no place in civilized society.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

I generally agree, but who gets to draw the line on what falls into that and what doesn't? Clearly the standards have shifted over time as society has evolved or in some cases devolved lately, largely due to advances in science and knowledge.

Maybe this is all just simple common sense or another way to bring traffic to his site, but I like ...

amymcmxcii comments on May 6, 2019:

It seems that this is excellent advice, but so well-known so as to be almost cliché. The big problem is how to find the right person, a problem exacerbated by dating sites and the internet in general. Like the old saw: "How to make a rabbit stew - first catch a rabbit."

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

Yup, obvious and common sense, but from what I see on Match, not practiced by most people on the paid sites. People and relationships are too much of a disposable commodity with most people in the internet age and as a result, most people on dating sites are simply shopping in a very impersonal, selfish way. No wonder most of them act coldly and like jerks.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@Carin You're welcome. That was my intent and I'm glad it was helpful.

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 6, 2019:

@Carin I agree with your points about being people being honest with others. My point was about people expecting nothing but some fantasy in a relationship instead of a realistic relationship with an actual person. Talk about objectifying the other party in advance by treating them as some object to be used in fulfilling a fantasy rather than dealing with them as an actual, complex, flawed human. I hear all the time how women don't want to be objectified by men. Isn't this just another form of that?

My ex is looking for a serviceman or firefighter who likes long walks in the park with dogs.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 5, 2019:

She is clearly deluded and looking for a unicorn. I like your humor here Fred.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 5, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd Unfortunately, that kind of fantasy is what a lot, but probably not most women, want, and in my mind they are pretty fucked up mentally and emotionally. I don't want someone like that and they wouldn't want me. But when you are a non-believer and also non-mainstream and non-conforming in some other ways and live in a fairly conservative, traditional area, it doesn't leave a guy like me with many prospects......

Thought, in relationships, men put up all the effort(or at least are expected to) while women only ...

friendlycatlady comments on May 4, 2019:

Actually, I have been thinking about this topic lately. What I have found, as a woman is that men seem to value superficial things, like looks, youth, and sex much more than personality, or intelligence. When I was really young, I fantasized about meeting someone with whom I could share my innermost...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 5, 2019:

@Sticks48 Not all men are wired for recreational sex, and I'm one of them, but I totally agree that most of them are and I also agree with the rest of your comment Sticks. And, friendlycatlady, he's also right that you have a huge advantage over most other women in the dating game with your looks. But with that also comes the problem of drawing a lot of superficial interest from men, who want sex rather than a real relationship with the whole you. And on that, like Sticks, said, all you can do is sort carefully until you run into a man who wants the whole you, is in it for a real relationship, and is right for you. There are men like that out there and I am looking for that type of woman, but we are pretty much overlooked by women in your league of looks. That is the dilemma good-looking people face, namely, are they willing to move down any from their level of looks for a partner who is right in every other way for them, since many, if not the vast majority of the opposite sex at their looks level are probably looking for something different than them in a partner, such as looks only, money, or just sex, anything but a real relationship that is deep and equal. Not all great looking people are selfish, shallow, or exploitive, but because of their looks they do have a lot more choices in the dating game, so it allows them to be those things very easily if they choose and thus they are often seeking different things in dating than those who don't have great looks. Because they can. Kind of like very rich people in how they are free to live their lives compared to the common folk. When you're rich, you never have to behave nicely, be honest, or treat anyone fairly, because you can buy your way out of almost anything.....

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

I am way different in culture, values, and lifestyle than most people in my area, which I am just fine with and have been my whole adult life. However, when I attempt to find someone compatible to date, it really does work against me and becomes a big challenge. Being way different from the herd ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd Whatever works for you. I'm different and will not "play a role" to date women or get them into bed. I will be me, whatever the cost. I have to say, in all honesty, that guys that play your kind of games with women do have an impact on guys like me in the dating game as the women who deal with you probably come away feeling very cynical, if not bitter, and then they take it out on guys like me. So I kind of resent what you do for the effects it has on women that I later have to face and deal with, which I wish I didn't have to keep encountering.

With absolute certainty I can say I will never date anyone who is religious!

Moravian comments on Apr 29, 2019:

I dated a religious woman for three years. She had many admirable qualities and our differing views only occasionally caused friction. She was very materialistic and dumped me because I could not afford to " Wine and dine" her in the manner she wanted and expected, so in no way did she follow "the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Moravian They can find and expect someone else as far as I'm concerned. I will not date someone who is materialistic and ok with being exploitive.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

Booklover comments on May 3, 2019:

Eeyore is my spirit animal. Lovely to have friends who know they don't have to "fix" anything, just be there.

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

As you know Nancy, GrumpyCat is my general spirit animal and I often relate to Eeyore. I also have my old copy of The Velveteen Rabbit.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

I am way different in culture, values, and lifestyle than most people in my area, which I am just fine with and have been my whole adult life. However, when I attempt to find someone compatible to date, it really does work against me and becomes a big challenge. Being way different from the herd ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Fred_Snerd We have very different goals as far as dating then. When all you are doing is playing and dating casually, the differences don't matter. But that's not why I am trying to date and not how I am wired.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

The sad truth is that in real life few Eeyores have friends like that. Even here on Agnostic, I have seen members mocked and kicked when they were feeling down for openly sharing about how bad they felt. They were even compared to Eeyore. Tis a pity. Which is why I will never share like that again ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 4, 2019:

@Annabelle95991 Thanks. If you were my age and lived in my area, I would want to meet you and hear you sing.

With absolute certainty I can say I will never date anyone who is religious!

Moravian comments on Apr 29, 2019:

I dated a religious woman for three years. She had many admirable qualities and our differing views only occasionally caused friction. She was very materialistic and dumped me because I could not afford to " Wine and dine" her in the manner she wanted and expected, so in no way did she follow "the ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

I have enough money to pay my own way, but I will not date a woman who expects me to pay her way like what you seem to be describing. Seems too much like being a sugar daddy, which to me smacks of prostitution-lite. I am not very materialistic and would need someone to share that with me if it was going to work out.

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 Let it go man, we're done. Don't make me block you....

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 Nader didn't lose it for Gore. A bunch of old people accidentally voting for Buchanan instead of Gore on the butterfly ballots, plus the Supreme Court is what lost it for Gore, along with a shitty campaign by Gore. Quit blaming Nader for it, he was the least at fault of any of those I listed. Looks like we are much the same except for politics, of course. you're obviously not a socialist like me.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

I realize I'm not going to the point of your post, but- does it really matter how "different" you are from other people? You're *you.* I'm me. I realized decades ago that I'm smarter (or at least know a lot more facts; not necessarily the same thing all the time) than most people around me; I like ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@Paul4747 What is Firefly? Never heard of it.

The real reason neither party want a progressive candidate is because they would have the ability to...

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

Or possibly because the Republican party is not a party of progressives, but conservatives who are unlikely to nominate a progressive... and because the Democrats realize that a minority of the country are what *you* define as "progressive", so they need to appeal to the center to win an election ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

If the Dems are wise and well-meaning enough, which I really doubt, to nominate Bernie, then your theory will finally be put to the test for the first time since 1972 when they nominated McGovern. Personally, I think Bernie could and probably would beat Trump if nominated, even with the whole corporate media machine against him, which they would predictably do as well as the Dem party not giving Bernie much or any support. But we will never know unless he gets nominated. My hunch is that if Bernie got nominated and allowed to be in the prez debates, unlike Nader who never got that chance, that most of the eligible non-voters, who are mostly poor and lean left, would come out and vote for him. That is the factor that would defy your analysis of lefties being such a minority on the bell curve. Because in that scenario what counts is who votes and who doesn't, not the normal bell curve of political opinion in America.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

Paul4747 comments on May 3, 2019:

I realize I'm not going to the point of your post, but- does it really matter how "different" you are from other people? You're *you.* I'm me. I realized decades ago that I'm smarter (or at least know a lot more facts; not necessarily the same thing all the time) than most people around me; I like ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

You sound a lot like you are describing me. I bet we both have the same challenges in finding someone compatible to date. It's tough finding someone else just as offbeat.

We could all learn a lot from Pooh, Piglet and Eeyore It occurred to Pooh 🐻 and Piglet 🐷 ...

TomMcGiverin comments on May 3, 2019:

The sad truth is that in real life few Eeyores have friends like that. Even here on Agnostic, I have seen members mocked and kicked when they were feeling down for openly sharing about how bad they felt. They were even compared to Eeyore. Tis a pity. Which is why I will never share like that again ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

@ShadowAmicus Thank you mate, I appreciate that.

EDIT: I put this in the relationship forum.

LiterateHiker comments on May 3, 2019:

Love yourself and don't worry about comparing yourself to other people. All my life, I have felt like I don't belong on this planet. I'm too sensitive, intelligent, high energy, intense and optimistic. As a Democrat, feminist, environmental and atheist, I'm a fish out of water in ...

TomMcGiverin replies on May 3, 2019:

I more or less make the same efforts to spend time around and meet other people similar to me. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to help any in finding someone compatible to date. The groups are too small a pool. I know that is not the focus of your comment or your main intent in joining the groups, just sharing my experience.

One day, somebody will be 100% honest with you🤗

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I had that with my late wife, but I have little hope now of finding that again with someone, like HippieChick says..

TomMcGiverin replies on May 2, 2019:

@DevraisA1 Thank you. I wish I lived near a number of women my age that I have run across on Agnostic.

The Judean People’s Front still alive and kicking. Extinction?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I realize that nobody will get this Monty Python reference to the Judean People's Front unless they have seen Monty Python's movie Life Of Brian, but thank you for including it anyway. Yes, the spirit of that absurd parody of a totally self-absorbed, insular and ineffectual political splinter group ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Healthydoc70 I have too, in most of the prez elections. I voted Anderson in the year he ran as an independent, but after that it was Green every time except Obama's first time. I will not keep voting lesser evil every time like most of my liberal, but not socialist, friends who keep voting Dem every time for prez. To me, they are like addicts who need a 12 Step program for it........

Death arrangement

PontifexMarximus comments on Apr 28, 2019:

Why would you care about the ashes?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@citronella Good point.

Death arrangement

Stevil comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I contacted the university of Tennessee and am donating my body to them for research. My daughter says she will host a party with any friends I have left when I kick. I hope people get drunk specially any that didn't know me, maybe somebody will get drunk enough to get laid. That thought makes me ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

I like your style and thinking, man. I don't have the nerve to arrange it, but my old swimming coach and I talked on the phone recently and he, who is also a devout Atheist (oxymoron, I know), said he is planning on having a party at the local KC (Knights of Columbus for those who are not former Catholics like him) hall where, he said, "there will be a little music, some drinking, and lots of stories". Sounds a lot like the old-time Irish wakes that my distant, long-dead relatives would have at the deceased's family home in the old days.

Interesting thing when people attempt to date, at least as suggested by many posts here: Religion ...

Tomaf comments on Apr 28, 2019:

THis isn't the sexual deviants group, so I do not want to get explicit, but I have found that religion has little to do with how sex-crazed women can get when deprived for a long time.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

Can't speak to that from personal experience with those kind of women, but I'll take your word on it.

Interesting thing when people attempt to date, at least as suggested by many posts here: Religion ...

VIKingsCFH comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I know that I don't have a problem dating anyone who is a believer, of any faith. I'll even attend services with them, to support them, not their religion. Rare is it to find anyone who goes the other way. One mention of the word, athiest, or nonbeliever, and it's a deal breaker. What are they ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

It's because they are insecure, hypocrites, or both.

Interesting thing when people attempt to date, at least as suggested by many posts here: Religion ...

Booklover comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I am currently seeing a man who is a retired Presbyterian minister. We get along fine so far. He's nice, my cats like him, he adores them, and has cats of his own. He must be a good person! He doesn't agree with most religious dogma and generally gets along better with us non believers than ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

Almost everyone I've met that has or likes cats have been good people. Glad you met this guy. Most people of his denomination I have met have been reasonable, fairly open-minded people. The religious diff then becomes a non-barrier then when both of you are intelligent and educated, since his church is very mainline. I generally think that when religion becomes a barrier between one of us and a believer, it's because the believer is either a very strong believer, intolerant, or any kind of fundamentalist at all. In all other cases, if the non-believer is open-minded and tolerant, it can work out. Some of us non-believers aren't and unfortunately most believers aren't either, at least in my experience.

Hmmm...interesting observation. It made me laugh, anyway!

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I'm very impatient about some things, more patient than most on some other things. I also have never grown or wanted a beard. What does that say about me?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@MissKathleen Thanks, MK, we're good. Sometimes online can be a bit confusing with context, compared to voice talk, which is why I prefer that to online or texting.

Evening all.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I live in a conservative state where most folks claim to be xian, even if they don't act it or attend church regularly. More of an xian by default status. I gave up on the dating scene, just too many scammers out there.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Lucy_Fehr Probably not all are scammers, but it seems to me like most women my age in my area on Match do seem to just focus on the 7-9s and ignore the average-looking guys.

i just need to vent, i have been attempting to meet people on a dating site, POF, i have a profile, ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Thanks for maybe saving me some time Carla. Another member on here, Rob, just suggested that I try POF after I have been on Match for 19 months and still haven't met anyone to date romantically yet. In fact I only met 6 women in person so far. One of the biggest reasons is that only about 25% of the...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Lucy_Fehr Yeah, unless you can read and reply to messages, a dating site is worthless.

i just need to vent, i have been attempting to meet people on a dating site, POF, i have a profile, ...

bobwjr comments on Apr 27, 2019:

No shit try here not the same people

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Lucy_Fehr Same here. Sadly, I gave up a while ago on dating anyone from here. Won't do LD dating, esp. if it involved me relocating.

The problem with religion [youtu.be]

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 28, 2019:

I saw a really disturbing documentary film a while back called Jesus Camp. This kind of thing reminds me of that.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Eazyduzzit I thought so. Man, I am getting old and maybe a bit forgetful...

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 13, 2019:

Here in central Iowa, most people don't honestly know what Agnostic means, so I don't bother listing myself as that on Batch in my profile. In the checklist of traits part of the profile, one of the categories you can use to ID yourself on religion is Spiritual, But Not Religious. I use that one, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@ElusiveMoby That's just the way it is with most Christians, or any group for that matter where they know they are part of the huge and dominant majority of the local culture and population. They have a smug and superior attitude towards others that are different because they are in the majority and those others aren't. Similar to racial attitudes among some whites in America, esp. states that are mostly white.

The problem with religion [youtu.be]

ToolGuy comments on Apr 28, 2019:

If you watch this on You Tube, the next video is quite good too. I was raised by a Mennonite mother who knew I was an atheist and never chose to dispute that with me. Her life was marked by many challenges — trials in a religious sense? — and actually used beauty to give meaning to her life.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

That's interesting. A guy who is one of my best friends from the local Unitarian church also grew up Mennonite. Became a tax lawyer and also dabbled in local politics. A very cool guy.

Well that'll do it I suppose Christian Teacher Ended Her Husband’s Porn Habit… By Shooting ...

Triphid comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Shit, If I were him and had to wake up every morning to a face like hers I'd be looking at porn as well.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

Since one of the women here thought your comment was funny, I will come out and admit I was thinking that too, even if I didn't post it.

Well that'll do it I suppose Christian Teacher Ended Her Husband’s Porn Habit… By Shooting ...

1of5 comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I just love how she shot him in the leg and *then* decided to fire a warning shot - that hit him in the head. Some people.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

Did the article say that? Maybe I missed something, I thought it said she shot him only in the head, no other shot.

Well that'll do it I suppose Christian Teacher Ended Her Husband’s Porn Habit… By Shooting ...

Jolanta comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I bet that now she wishes that she should just have divorced him.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

Well, in my opinion, divorce is costly, but less costly than murder is for most people who do it. Maybe she would have got a walk if her lawyer got a jury trial and stacked the jury with other female Bible-thumpers. Something like that kind of worked for OJ with race instead of religion, but there were other factors in that as well. Jus'sayin'. Sounds like her lawyer may have instead asked for a bench trial and the judge turned out to not be as much of a Bible-thumper as her. Or maybe the article was only saying what the judge gave her for the sentence and not the verdict.

Well that'll do it I suppose Christian Teacher Ended Her Husband’s Porn Habit… By Shooting ...

josh_is_exciting comments on Apr 27, 2019:

She watched too much Pulp Fiction... "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger..."

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

That is my favorite part of the film, so good that the scene is done twice, I believe.

i just need to vent, i have been attempting to meet people on a dating site, POF, i have a profile, ...

bobwjr comments on Apr 27, 2019:

No shit try here not the same people

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@Carla1963 This is meant to be a dating and community site, but until the membership gets hugely larger, it will never really offer any local dating options except to a relatively few members who are lucky enough to live in a fairly secular/large urban area.

I have a buddy I was in Vietnam with.

Coffeeman comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Keep your friend! My uncle, who recently died was racist as hell, but i loved my uncle dearly... Keep calling your vet buddy. Ignore his ignorance. We are not all perfect.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 28, 2019:

@citronella I have a sister who is evangelical and for a period of several years we were able to have a fairly good relationship, but then she later became judgemental and unsupportive of me over the personal problems I was having in my life, while my friends continued to be accepting and supportive of me. It had nothing to do with her religion or my lack of, but after that I cut off contact with her and only communicate with her or see her in connection with my father, who is in poor health, because we still share a relationship with him and a mutual concern about his welfare, but nothing else. For that matter, I have the same situation now with my other two siblings, but I had already cut ties with them some time before, mainly for other reasons.

Evening all.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I live in a conservative state where most folks claim to be xian, even if they don't act it or attend church regularly. More of an xian by default status. I gave up on the dating scene, just too many scammers out there.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@SecularCat65 I'm still in the game, at least technically, but when you are an average-looking guy on a paid dating site like Match, you spend almost all the time on the sidelines instead of actually meeting women and going on dates, esp. if you don't fit in with the mainstream of your area on lifestyle and culture. My theory is that most of the actual dating on sites like those goes on largely with just the members that are above average-looking like 7s, 8s, and 9s. I suspect they get all the attention and are spoiled with choices, making it easy for both the men and women to be real players if they choose to go that route.

i just need to vent, i have been attempting to meet people on a dating site, POF, i have a profile, ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Thanks for maybe saving me some time Carla. Another member on here, Rob, just suggested that I try POF after I have been on Match for 19 months and still haven't met anyone to date romantically yet. In fact I only met 6 women in person so far. One of the biggest reasons is that only about 25% of the...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Carla1963 Try Match or Our Time, something with a larger membership pool. Our Time is owned by Match, BTW. Also Carla, the guy you described sounds a lot like the folks that attend a type of church called Unity, that is all about crystals, really out there spiritual stuff and other New Age shit. I have heard about them because some of them eventually end up at Unitarian churches.

Evening all.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I live in a conservative state where most folks claim to be xian, even if they don't act it or attend church regularly. More of an xian by default status. I gave up on the dating scene, just too many scammers out there.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@SecularCat65 Well, I am partial to stats, as I used to tutor it in college and also used to really be into sports.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Robecology Thanks Rob. I don't have a smartphone and don't want one, so OK cupid is out.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Robecology I get you Rob, easy mistake on the reply direction. I agree with you that Agnostic is the ideal online way to meet, just not for anyone in my area because of so few members and no new women at least my age, in the last two years, so as far as online dating for me, it's either the paid sites or LD dating on Agnostic, which I will not do the latter. I may look into POF, but I'm guessing it won't offer me anything better than Match for my area, due to having a smaller member pool in my area and probably a lot of the same women as Match. But if it's free, nothing to lose except some time and effort.

Evening all.

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I live in a conservative state where most folks claim to be xian, even if they don't act it or attend church regularly. More of an xian by default status. I gave up on the dating scene, just too many scammers out there.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

Same here, but I haven't given up completely yet on online dating. But you're right, cat, only about 25% of the women's profiles in my area for my age group indicate that they are willing or interested in dating someone who is not religious. And then after you factor in looks, common interests, and other traits like lifestyle, values, and cultural traits, it gets whittled down to about 2-3% of the profiles and women being very mutually compatible, at least in my experience. It's not a needle in a haystack, but it's not a hell of a lot bigger than that, more like a sliver of the population on the site, but it feels more like a needle in a haystack after a while. And, to be clear, I am talking about Match, not this site.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@EyesThatSmile Your words to me a while back about online dating, Marianne, have proven to be quite prophetic. Like I said below in this thread, and you told me in messaging, in online dating there is too much fucking competition for each woman out there. So I may have to depend on both, even tho I have very little hope in organic, IRL encounters with women and, by now, not much more hope than that for online dating.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Robecology I think you got the wrong profile. I am not 54, I'm 60 and I have several pics. I'm talking about Agnostic, of course.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R I can see that advantage of meeting women in person over online and the reason for that is in person you are not competing against dozens or even over a hundred other men at the same time with one woman. The woman that meets you in person is only sizing you up at the time against her own personal standards, whatever they may be. If one has the ease, confidence, etc., I can see how an average-looking guy has more of a shot there with most women than they will ever get with online paid sites. But I don't have that kind of confidence, patience, skills, etc. to want to rely mostly on that when so much of the time it will yield little more than a possible friendship, if even that because the woman is either unavailable, not looking, or, in my case most often, too mainstream to be a match for me. This has been a very interesting and enlightening discussion for me, thanks Ron.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R I like talking to people in person too. In fact I hate how texting seems to have replaced face to face conversation with most people, even many my own age. But as far as meeting women for dating, talking to women I meet thru random in person encounters just doesn't work for me. It is a good way to make friends, but as far as meeting compatible women for dating, just doesn't work for me because the encounters are still too rare to yield much of a chance in my area of meeting someone compatible. And a large part of that is because I am too offbeat from the mainstream of culture and lifestyle in my local area. In online dating I at least already have some info on the women to help me steer only towards the ones that appear to be compatible in those traits, even tho on Match those women are also a minority among the profiles and membership my age in my area.

We're on a road to destruction if we don't make changes.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I agree with most of what you posted here, esp. about the purposes of the site and how politically conservative members are likely to feel outnumbered and marginalized on here. However, as a socialist, I am not going to mute or change what I post to appease them. I don't know how to change that ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Admin With all due respect and in all honesty, you kind of lost me with what you said there. I am not being snarky or trying to be cute, I honestly am a little confused. Please do not respond with sarcasm, even tho I know that is the common currency on here when someone says they don't get something that was said.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

Good luck with that. While I don't close the door on meeting someone organically offline, I don't make an effort to look for or to meet women that way, because I know the number of opportunities and the depth of the dating pool thru that are both so limited. So instead I put my effort and hope ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@Ron_R Well, you have thicker skin and more confidence than me. My late wife used to say that it seemed to her like I could talk to any stranger, male or female. But that was before she got ill and we went thru her disease and suffering. I am not like I used to be before that and also even before I met her I had gotten tired of being shot down by women I was approaching with interest. I am not up for doing that again, even if they are alone when I meet them. Being shot down is even worse if you approach a woman in a group of women. Best to you too.

Hmmm...interesting observation. It made me laugh, anyway!

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 27, 2019:

I'm very impatient about some things, more patient than most on some other things. I also have never grown or wanted a beard. What does that say about me?

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

@sloryd Thanks, man. I was just trying to be a little humorous, but I guess I didn't impress MK at all....

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Robecology comments on Apr 27, 2019:

You can't beat on line dating....and if you're 100% honest...there's far less "angst" than going out and trying to meet and make friends and potential lovers at random. I was single in the 70's for a few years...again in the 80's...and again in the 90's. !st time...the bar scene was the only...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

Have to disagree some Rob. I am totally honest in my profile on Match, but I still have angst about the online dating experience, maybe because I need better pics in my profile, I dunno.....Or maybe I'm confusing angst with hurt and disappointment at all the rejection and lack of success in even finding one woman in 19 months that has enough in common, including mutual attraction, interests, and values/lifestyle to even begin going on a real date and having sex seem like something that might be on the horizon. It's never gone beyond the third meeting with anyone except for one person that was clearly mutual friendzone after the first meeting. As one guy said to me this morning before the monthly meeting of a local Meetup group for singles began, "Why should I pay for an online dating site for the privilege of being ignored?" He was referring to the one big flaw of online dating with sites like Match or whatever, namely that for average-looking people like him or me, that we get overlooked, as do women who are below-average looking, for all the other members who are better-looking and thus, never really or only rarely meet anyone thru the site. The common problem is that online dating provides way more info than offline organic meetings, but it also provides so many choices of people to pick that only the most visually attractive get attention and interest from most of the members.

Hi Folks, w I've noticed lots of angnst with on line dating, even just on line chatting.

Deiter comments on Apr 27, 2019:

To meet people in public, especially after a certain age, is to cast an awfully wide net. I've encountered many great women in my various circles, like parents at my kids' school – and NONE of them were single. Well, one was. And she came onto many of the dads (incl me). But that's another ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

I think you may have had a typo Deiter, did you mean to say that % of women ARE married, rather than unmarried? Because you say later that over half are married. Please clarify. Plus, you also have to consider how many of those women are so old dating is out of the picture.

We're on a road to destruction if we don't make changes.

CeliaVL comments on Apr 27, 2019:

On Facebook when I put how I am feeling in a status update, I feel safe doing that because it is going to be seen only by my friends and family, and I feel confident of their support. Here if it was open to everyone rather than a Group I already know I would be talking to strangers and I would be ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 27, 2019:

Good point. That is kind of what I was trying to say I was concerned about, that some viewers of these updates would be cruel or insensitive to people posting anything personal and vulnerable. Some of us non-believers are not the most kind, fair, or moral people. Also there is the concern that some people will be too much exhibitionist for their own ego or whatever. Good taste is always underserved most of the time by viewers and those who share. I used to share honestly and openly, probably too much so for the audience of the general forum in Love And Relationships, about some of the hurtful and upsetting things I experienced with online dating. And every time I could count on at least a few people lining up to ridicule or bash me for being vulnerable. There are some jerks on this site, both male and female, who simply love to kick someone when they are down because they are, at their core, kind of sadistic and callous. So there is always that risk, and I would myself be cautious about how deeply I shared in a status update.

Two new moderator features for groups: "Most post to author's profile page" and "Deny Post".

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

Good luck with that. You have have a lot more faith in human nature than I do. Same thing with feeling you can trust all the group moderators to be fair with all members. Now watch everybody feel they have to walk on eggshells instead of being honest or outspoken. It was nice while it lasted....The ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@GuyKeith That would be nice if the rules in each group were clearly spelled out and enforced fairly and consistently, but that's often not the case, Keith. Like most things in life, it often comes down to personalities and favoritism over what is actually in the rules. Like in most of my jobs I've had. Where the boss had all the power and the only power I had was to quit. So glad I'm retired and finally free of all that.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

I see it this way, the Christian Bible says" Want of money is the root of all evil". And all of us in America are well aware of how what most Americans really worship, is money, rather than God. Hence, if what most Americans actually worship is something the Bible says is evil, why shouldn't a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@WonderWartHog99 I stand corrected, thank you.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 26, 2019:

I see it this way, the Christian Bible says" Want of money is the root of all evil". And all of us in America are well aware of how what most Americans really worship, is money, rather than God. Hence, if what most Americans actually worship is something the Bible says is evil, why shouldn't a ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@bootaski Fine. I still enjoy the irony.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

O_ophelia comments on Apr 25, 2019:

Personally, I think its hilarious and I hope that its making other church officials walk around with puckered b-holes, but I am rather jaded in general, I suppose.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

I always love it when I see someone stick it to smug, arrogant assholes, be they Christian, Atheists, or politicians that fit that description, they're all the same to me.

What does everyone think of the Satanic Temple being granted tax exemption as a church recently?

Lutherzme comments on Apr 26, 2019:

Makes me want to start a church....who wants to get rich with me, thankya jeezussss!

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 26, 2019:

@powder I remember driving by a "church" in my hometown that was really a bingo parlor in an old grocery store. But they still got recognized as an official, tax exempt church because they did have a so-called minister and claimed to even hold "services", which were more likely just bingo games. Ah, American ingenuity.......

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Step 1: Call yourself the “Grim Reaper for socialist legislation”...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 25, 2019:

Always hated this guy. I know it's not PC on this site to put down someone's looks, but to me he's always appeared to be a cross-breed of a turtle and a jackass, with a personality that matches....

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 25, 2019:

@dan325 Good point. They are innocent and decent creatures...

What type of lover do you want?

1GodlessWoman comments on Apr 23, 2019:

Republicans turn me on.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 25, 2019:

As a non-believing conservative, you are going to find most men on here are lefties, but there are also a lot who aren't. Finding a man to date or meet will depend on where you live and if you will date LD.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Triphid As one of my high school sports coaches once said, " If you give a small man a small job, he'll turn it into a cabinet-level position" and my experience has proven that truer words were never spoken.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2019:

So, this is no longer a Community, but a collection of groups. That is sad. Will someone please set up a *Group* called *"Community"*, we'll all join, and we go back to where we were. Thanks Also, I remember the Good Ole Days when we were asked what we thought about possible changes. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Guess that explains it, I thought as much.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

David1955 comments on Apr 24, 2019:

So, this is no longer a Community, but a collection of groups. That is sad. Will someone please set up a *Group* called *"Community"*, we'll all join, and we go back to where we were. Thanks Also, I remember the Good Ole Days when we were asked what we thought about possible changes. ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Yup, two of them showed up in this discussion to troll me and rub it in now that they've won. One of them was even someone I had blocked. Is this some special group that even the comments of those you've blocked are displayed?

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@TCorCM Thanks for suggesting and trying to help. What I really need is a non-believers dating site with a decent-sized pool of local members.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@TCorCM What is CC?

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@MsDemeanour My experience with the admin. team, such as it was, seemed the opposite of petty, dictatorial group mods. If anything they were too passive as I messaged them a few times about concerns and they never took any action regarding members. Only heard back from one of my inquiries and it was not about a member, but about site service.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Triphid I agree with you that I have really enjoyed this site until now. In fact, it had mostly replaced my local Unitarian church as a community of interesting and smart, friendly people that I always looked forward to visiting, only without all the classism, snobbery, and cliqueshness of that congregation. I hope you are wrong about it becoming like FB, but I'm not hopeful. Oh well, I was thinking this site was too good to be true, even with no real local dating options.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@brentan I am not going to kiss the ass of any group mods to stay in a group and I doubt many other members will either. The decision to make them all-powerful will probably have bad consequences for the site.

Yes, we removed the general forum.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Unless it's a typo or I'm misreading your post, admin., what you seem to by saying with this decision is that now all the moderating will be done at the group level rather than the site level. What this change does is give almighty power to the group moderators to act like petty tyrants, which some ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Hastur Already had that done to me and a few others with a group mod that was trigger happy for booting people. Now, with the general forum gone, the only way I can see and post about dating experiences is to start my own group or join a small, fairly inactive group to post and read about it. The number of groups will be staggering and too much for a member to keep track of just to browse for posts and comments on even just a few topics.

I dont like kissing. It feels and looks stupid. Anyone else feel this way?

St-Sinner comments on Apr 24, 2019:

Please be clear. Kissing on the lips is one type, there are many ways and types of kiss. Kiss my ass for example.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

Well said sir, you are a fellow professional smart ass....Sadly, the last several years I have spent way more time telling others to kiss my ass than kissing the lips of a woman, 'tis a pity......

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Sounds good. I always Carvey on SNL and thought he was very funny, as was his sidekick Mike Myers.

As I prepare for a new relationship...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

As least you are more honest about it than most of the women's profiles I encounter on Match.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@Deiter Not that much difference, but then again I have only met 6 in person over 19 months now. A very small sample size. I don't feel confident about answering you on that because of it being so few.

LDR (Long DIstance Romance) tell me your personal experience of the positive ones ONLY! I have one ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I am curious what your purpose is in only hearing positive experiences. Are you trying to get up the courage to attempt another LDR? I can't offer you anything on that because I have never really attempted an LDR and am not willing or interested in attempting one ever in the future.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@ArtzyNerd That's what I thought. I respect how you are gathering the evidence to make a rational decision. I think you will choose wisely for you, whatever you decide. Keep us posted and I hope whatever you choose works out well for you.

Religious People On Dating Websites Are All Like...

KKGator comments on Apr 12, 2019:

I had to Google Joyce Meyer. I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing who she is, and I would have been completely content in my ignorance of her existence.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 24, 2019:

@KKGator Guess I was then. No offense meant.

Go back to college? Hmmmm.....

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I barely ever dated in college. Combination of being very serious about my studies and not having much confidence with women. The fact that I was never a big drinker may have also been a factor. Frank's advice may likely only apply to the more cool and better-looking guys than to me.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@BoingoOingo42 Well all I can tell you is that if you try online dating around my area, you need to be at least above-average looking and drink socially, or else you are in for a lot of waiting around for women to return any interest to you or accept you for dating. Maybe your area is different, I hope so for your sake. Average-looking non-drinkers will be accepted by about 3% of the women in my area. Not being a social drinker is a strict requirement of about 97% of the profiles I have seen. If you don't fit that the women will assume you are either a recovering alcoholic or a judgemental teetotaler. Either way, you will be rejected for their assumptions. That's why I just took the advice of another Agnostic member who said she changed her profile trait to Social Drinker from Never, because she got tired of the assumptions others made about her. I also took out my profile essay's references to it, so we'll see how the experiment works.

Don't get worked up over things you can't change or people you can't change..........Agree/disagree?

Buxx comments on Apr 21, 2019:

I don't entirely agree. It sounds nice until I think about it. "Can't change" is such a fraught term. Before every revolution, people had to be convinced that something could be changed. So instead of assuming you can't change something, ask yourself if it's worth attempting to change. Only if ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

Changing society as a whole or changing the people you encounter on a daily or regular basis are two different things. As far as changing the society, I agree with you on that basis. As far as people you see in your own dealings, I think that changing them really doesn't matter much, esp. if the answer is No.

The elders of this church got to design the church league softball shirts.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 21, 2019:

That is just too funny! Or maybe my mind is just too twisted......

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@Green_eyes Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 20, 2019:

I think I started a thread about this a while back and seemed to get a lot of agreement from other members about being estranged from family. This is probably my # 1 dealbreaker that I run into with women from Match in my area, because everyone claims to be so damn family oriented and 75% also ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 21, 2019:

@mzbehavin My fear, Lee, is that even with a fellow non-conformist I may run into dealbeaker issues over things that are also part of being offbeat, in which the woman may be too different from me, like being vegan and not accepting that I still eat meat and fish. Also, a non-conformist woman in other ways might still be a social drinker and not accept my non-drinking. When you take a hard look at it, it's amazing that any of us non-conformists can find anyone compatible because even in our non-conformist subcultures there are dealbreaker differences that exist between us on personal values and lifestyle.

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 20, 2019:

I think I started a thread about this a while back and seemed to get a lot of agreement from other members about being estranged from family. This is probably my # 1 dealbreaker that I run into with women from Match in my area, because everyone claims to be so damn family oriented and 75% also ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@mzbehavin Thank you for the compliment. I really am up against a huge numbers disadvantage living in the Des Moines area of Iowa, because there seem to be so few hipster, non-conformist women my age who are on Match or even available and interested in dating anyone. I know that if I lived in a more hip, less conservative or traditional larger city like Minneapolis or Chicago, my chances would probably be very good. But I won't date LD or move for anyone. I need my friends too badly...

Anyone can be had (sexually) given the right time and circumstance. True or not true??

hippydog comments on Apr 18, 2019:

Not true.. some are just out of my league..

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@freeofgod Maybe no one's out of his league, but I've had it proven in spades too many times on Match that many women are out of MY league. But Gwendolyn has confirmed that I have a lot of company in that among both sexes, so it hurts a little less.....

Estranged from family members... anyone experience this?

HippieChick58 comments on Apr 20, 2019:

My transition from xian to atheist didn't have any effect on any relationships. My kids were already non believers, non of my sibs are believers or were simply social xians. They went to church for community, not because they believed. My parents were not strong believers, and they have already ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

You were luckier than most of us with our families of origin. I am happy for you!

How can we encourage people to be more honest about their agnosticism?

Kafirah comments on Apr 20, 2019:

To openly declare yourself agnostic or atheist in today's religious climate requires a certain level of courage most do not possess. The courage to lose everyone in your life that matters. The courage to be an outcast among your peers. The courage to stand against the world alone. The courage to ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

Coming out these days as a non-believer takes a similar courage to coming out as LGBT was maybe a decade or two ago as far as the non-acceptance, likelihood of rejection and retaliation, not that coming out as either is ever easy these days. Most people don't have the courage and that's why a lot of our society is filled with people that don't have integrity or courage and know they are living a lie in some way by conforming to the mainstream. If most people had that kind of guts, our mainstream values and lifestyles might be very different than what we see now. But most people are more content to conform than be authentic in how they live and how they are known to others.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 20, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye So you are widowed like me? I went to support group for widowed people for several months, but quit going after that because, one, they all seemed very traditional and conformist, compared to me and most Agnostic.com types, and secondly, almost all the women were way older in their age or their thinking and acting. So I didn't see the point in continuing. Their informational programs at each meeting were boring and not telling me anything I didn't already know about grieving or widowed life. So the only two reasons to stay would have been to meet someone for dating or get support from the group. It was clear to me that neither of those were ever going to happen for me with all the cultural and age diffs between me and the group. Glad you ran into a better group that had at least one cool, hipster type in it. That was never going to happen for me in Des Moines Iowa.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Mayor Pete is being promoted by the corporate media and the Dem party's leaders and establishment as the golden boy because it's all part of a move by those groups and the Dem's big money donors to stop Bernie at all costs without having to kill him or attack him directly. So, yes, there is nothing ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@Sgt_Spanky Same here.I know my enemies, and who I can trust or not as a socialist and progressive by the company they keep. If Wall Street, corporate America, the corporate media, the Dem leaders and establishment, and the big money donors all hate and fear Bernie, then I know that he's the right one for me and is on my side. Same with Pete and the company he keeps and who supports him tells me he is not on my side and not to be trusted.

BUTTIGIEG IS FULL OF SH-T -- Seeing as how PB is surging in the polls based, I believe, on ...

A2Jennifer comments on Apr 19, 2019:

Bernie would be better for the progressive cause *IF* he could get elected but it’s centrists and independents that will swing the election and I would rather have literally anyone who will beat Trump than have my ideal candidate lose to him.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

He would, of course, have all the corporate media against him as well as possibly even the Dem party against him, but if Bernie got into the presidential debates he would wipe the floor with Trump, as would have Nader if he had ever got the chance during the times he ran. The reason Bernie could still win after that even if the groups I mentioned were against him is that his message of hope and actually fighting for the poor and working class would motivate most of those who don't vote anymore because they are poor and feel otherwise not represented or cared about by either party, and thus, we would suddenly have 75% or higher, maybe 90%, of eligible voters turn out. And Bernie would get most of those former non-voters. We normally get about a 50% turnout in a prez election and that's because the groups I mentioned have figured out that neither party cares about them and given up voting. Before the 1970s, we used to have way higher turnouts, but then the Dems lost credibility with those groups so they stopped voting.

I haven't been here much lately.

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

How did you meet him, on Agnostic? I would be very surprised if you did. Is he long distance or local? Seeing your location on your bio, I'm guessing he is LD and from Agnostic. His traits are so offbeat and rare among the general pop,, it sounds like you found a unicorn.....In my local area, ...

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@SkotlandSkye Still didn't say how you met him. Online, chance meeting in public, at a gym, what? You are correct that you beat overwhelming odds in meeting someone so compatible so close by in OK.

When I was small, growing up on a Haiti mission in the 1950s and 60s, we children sometimes played ...

TomMcGiverin comments on Apr 19, 2019:

If I had your psychic ability I would use it to track down the one or few people in my area that were compatible for me to date and mentally influence them to want to meet me. By that logic you should already have found your match(es).

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

@birdingnut I think we are very different from each other that way, you and I. I will leave it at that and respectfully disagree with you.

I was flipping through channels and briefly paused on the ID channel (true crime.

wordywalt comments on Apr 19, 2019:

White southern cordiality extends only to fellow white believers and defenders of the conservative and racist southern order. I know, as I grew up in the rural south, and saw the same all throughout the region.

TomMcGiverin replies on Apr 19, 2019:

I believe you and it's all as phony as "Iowa Nice" in my state. It's mean-spirited and judgemental hidden behind fake politeness and a smile, all of which disappears as soon they discover you are different than them. I have rejected it my whole adult life as an Iowan. It is also a companion of the Midwest-wide norm of enforced politeness, in which you are a terrible person should you ever be really honest, confrontational, or assertive in a social setting.